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Thread: Objectivism

  1. #111
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You're hilarious man, are you employing the logic, same as the trotskyists about communism that "it hasnt been tried?"

    Anyway, Lenin travelled across Europe, was in Germany at the time of the revolution in Russia and thought that he'd seen it all in terms of class struggles and industrialisation related woes, he probably wasnt that mistaken really.
    About Lenin: "O ye of little faith." He couldn't see beyond his own nose.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    About Lenin: "O ye of little faith." He couldn't see beyond his own nose.
    Produced loads of good sayings which are in common use now though, such as throwing the baby out with the bath water or tail wags the dog, I prefer Luxemburg as a serious theorist though.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Produced loads of good sayings which are in common use now though, such as throwing the baby out with the bath water or tail wags the dog, I prefer Luxemburg as a serious theorist though.
    Interesting. "She argued that the critical difference between capital and labour could only be countered if the proletariat assumed power and effected revolutionary changes in production methods." That's true. And it's a good idea if your goal is to bankrupt a factory or an entire industry. I'm assuming what those new (leaderless, democratic and council-managed) production methods would be like.

    It's a "critical difference" that can make or break an industry. It's not to say other methods can't work. But those operating with the new methods won't be humans.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Interesting. "She argued that the critical difference between capital and labour could only be countered if the proletariat assumed power and effected revolutionary changes in production methods." That's true. And it's a good idea if your goal is to bankrupt a factory or an entire industry. I'm assuming what those new (leaderless, democratic and council-managed) production methods would be like.

    It's a "critical difference" that can make or break an industry. It's not to say other methods can't work. But those operating with the new methods won't be humans.
    Yeah, managerialism will eventually decline I'm sure but I doubt it'll be until the banks work out a way to make it happen.

    I dont think you've managed to fathom the whole socialists are humanists thing yet and that no one is making anyone into robots.

  5. #115
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, managerialism will eventually decline I'm sure but I doubt it'll be until the banks work out a way to make it happen.

    I dont think you've managed to fathom the whole socialists are humanists thing yet and that no one is making anyone into robots.
    I'm just saying that they did make children into robots that swayed back and forth in unison all day. In the same context I said that this wasn't the goal of that experiment. Of course it wasn't the goal. I recall a Soviet nurse saying that she was very disappointed in the results, and that they had destroyed a generation of children. I got that quote from her, I didn't make it up.

    So, I've been reading the entire Wiki article on Rosa Luxemburg. She was a pacifist who was killed during a communist German uprising which she opposed, and her body dumped into a river. Nobody is sure if her actual remains were ever found.

    I'm not saying I disagree with her methods.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #116
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    “Productive activity, if we leave out of sight its special form, viz., the useful character of the labor, is nothing but the expenditure of human labor power. Tailoring and weaving, though qualitatively different productive activities, are each a productive expenditure of human brains, nerves, and muscles, and in this sense are human labor.” (Capital Vol. I)

    This implies that thinking-in-itself is not useful labor.

    Marx himself therefore produced nothing useful.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #117
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Produced loads of good sayings which are in common use now though, such as throwing the baby out with the bath water or tail wags the dog, I prefer Luxemburg as a serious theorist though.
    Luxemburg was the only one.

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