can you mix christianity and divinity tools like tarot cards to speak to god?

[jcloudz]

would it be considered against Christianity rules or laws, if you pray to god, meditate and divine his answer using tarot cards?

this question is not pertinent to me, im not christian but was thinking about this while i was playing the some tarot cards.

 

[UniqueMixture]

saul did it with the witch at endor in... kings? i think. maybe 1 or 2 samuel

 

[/DG/]

I don't think it is ever explicitly frowned upon in the Bible, if I am not mistaken.

Of course, it's quite likely that I'm mistaken...

*edit* Hold on...

I've found several verses that may or may not condemn the practice of tarot cards depending on how you interpret them.

10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,

11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you.

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

 

[Amargith]

Fwiw, there are witch traditions that combine Judaism and Pagan religions and practices, like divination. Two traditions that organically have this within their history are the Celtic Tradition (due to the the historic mingling of customs and traditions after the conversion) and those using voodoo in their tradition (spacing on their specific names now). Aside from that, there are those that are raised Christian and identify as such but combine it the way you would with any other tradition with other parts of their heritage (for instance the Germanic Tradition), or with more modern parts like Wicca. They do get a lot of flak for it, especially by reconstructionists and of course devout christians (though pagans in general get a lot of flak from those, this group gets treated worse often.)

In my own humble opinion and experience, you work with what *feels* right to you and from what I gather, christian prayers work much in the same way our spells do (just without the props usually, with the exception of the candle). Divination, I found, is just a way to self-reflect with props to make that process easier, and from what I gather prayer is used by Christians for that as well.

 

[Lark]

would it be considered against Christianity rules or laws, if you pray to god, meditate and divine his answer using tarot cards?

this question is not pertinent to me, im not christian but was thinking about this while i was playing the some tarot cards.

No. I dont believe you can.

You should read Dennis Wheatley incidentially.

 

[Aesthete]

I guess anybody could add thousands of things to Christianity and take thousands away and claim its the real deal. I'll have to look around to see if there are any mentions of this in the Gospels--I have a feeling there is. In either case, I don't want to waste my time playing with magic cards.

 

[Sniffles]

I doubt there's any references to Tarot in the Gospels, largely because Tarot originates from the late Medieval period. And apparently it's occult association didn't really emerge until the 18th century.

 

[Beorn]

See my response here:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58709&p=1965078&viewfull=1#post1965078

As a christian I'm not a fan of divination of any sort. Regardless of whether someone is trying to talk to God or the devil. I can see why someone would be frustrated by Christians who condemn one sort of divination and then seek to use another form of divination. Because both efforts seem to come from the same completely understandable desire for an experience or knowledge that will bring peace.*

Nonetheless, I avoid divination for five reasons:

1. Divination almost altogether ceased in the new testament after Pentecost and the descending of the holy spirit onto believers.
2. Revelation is powerful and that which is powerful is dangerous. I feel much more comfortable with revelation that has been examined and tested for at least 2000 years than with the words uttered by a prophet yesterday or random words that came to my mind during prayer this morning. I've seen people's lives manipulated and controlled by the power of divination and I find it pretty disgusting when that happens.
3. I have found the spiritual counsel of the bible to be sufficient for most any question I have. Moreover, the bible answers all the BIG important questions and any smaller questions I might have are just extrapolations of answers to the big questions. Questions with answers that can't be extrapolated from biblical answers simply aren't as important as I think they are.*
4. Some people might find it ironic, but I'm also against divination BECAUSE I believe in Christian liberty. I believe that anything that isn't required by the bible is open for my own judgement. I'm not interested in being bound by more rules than are in the bible. I believe divination is often an effort to be bound by additional revelation. I think everyone can agree that the bible has enough rules. Another way of saying this is to quote saint Augustine: "Love God and do what you want." Of course I personally believe that loving God precludes divination.*
5. The bottom line is that for the Christian peace should not be sought from experiences to come or from knowledge about the future. Rather it should be found in the knowledge of one's relationship with God and rituals and practices that celebrate that relationship formed during the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Christians don't need outside revelation for peace as we have the holy spirit himself within us to testify to our hope.

Theologian Bruce Waltke goes into further detail on the points I raised above in his book, Finding the Will of God: A Pagan Notion?
http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Will-G.../dp/0802839746

 

[Beorn]

saul did it with the witch at endor in... kings? i think. maybe 1 or 2 samuel

He did it because the Lord had turned away from him and he couldn't have the counsel of a Prophet. Saul is defeated in battle the next day and commits suicide.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Do we find Catholicism in your definition of Christianity? Catholics use all sorts of divination tools, like in that movie "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" the old nun lady puts some eyeballs in a wok with some other shit for future-telling purposes while the priest guy with the beard looks on in disgust. He must have had a weak stomach, but yes, that's a Catholic thing. I think it's even in the Catholic Bible.

 

[kyli_ryan]

Do we find Catholicism in your definition of Christianity? Catholics use all sorts of divination tools, like in that movie "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" the old nun lady puts some eyeballs in a wok with some other shit for future-telling purposes while the priest guy with the beard looks on in disgust. He must have had a weak stomach, but yes, that's a Catholic thing. I think it's even in the Catholic Bible.

I believe the whole point is that she isn't a Christian, but practicing pagan rituals...

 

[WALMART]

I am going to say, like all Christians, you can pick and choose what you want to do. God will not judge, unless he does. Then you're fucked.

 

[ReadingRainbows]

Biblically speaking, for Christians, it is not a wise idea. Divination is one of the big no-nos in the bible because not only does it open up windows and doors to demonic influence, but it negates the use the prayer and faith. Divination and fortune telling are viewed by the church as acts to control nature. It's completely contrary to the nature of christianity, which is giving up control.

 

[sprinkles]

Biblically speaking, for Christians, it is not a wise idea. Divination is one of the big no-nos in the bible because not only does it open up windows and doors to demonic influence, but it negates the use the prayer and faith. Divination and fortune telling are viewed by the church as acts to control nature. It's completely contrary to the nature of christianity, which is giving up control.

What I would like to know is how many actually believe that something happens when you do this.

What I mean by something happening is like something that happens when you stick a fork in an electrical outlet. Something literally and really does happen when you do that and it happens regardless of your mental state or belief.

This is opposed to something happening when you stick a fork in a potato. If there's a cult that believes in potato demons they may flip out and proclaim calamity if somebody sticks a fork in a potato, but on the other side of the continent people stick forks in potatoes obliviously with no ill effect because nothing actually happens (except for a damaged potato) so since they aren't psychologically primed for it, it means nothing.

 

[ReadingRainbows]

What I would like to know is how many actually believe that something happens when you do this.

What I mean by something happening is like something that happens when you stick a fork in an electrical outlet. Something literally and really does happen when you do that and it happens regardless of your mental state or belief.

This is opposed to something happening when you stick a fork in a potato. If there's a cult that believes in potato demons they may flip out and proclaim calamity if somebody sticks a fork in a potato, but on the other side of the continent people stick forks in potatoes obliviously with no ill effect because nothing actually happens (except for a damaged potato) so since they aren't psychologically primed for it, it means nothing.

Well Tarot cards for example are so vague any reading can be applied to most situations. There is also the confirmation bias that people tend to go towards as well.

 

[Aesthete]

Do we find Catholicism in your definition of Christianity? Catholics use all sorts of divination tools, like in that movie "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" the old nun lady puts some eyeballs in a wok with some other shit for future-telling purposes while the priest guy with the beard looks on in disgust. He must have had a weak stomach, but yes, that's a Catholic thing. I think it's even in the Catholic Bible.

I'm sorry, I'm a Catholic and I have yet to see such a ritual performed at my church.

 

[Sniffles]

I'm sorry, I'm a Catholic and I have yet to see such a ritual performed at my church.

You've never been a Voodoo mass then.

 

[Aesthete]

You've never been a Voodoo mass then.

I've seen some of those on TV, but that's about it. Freaky stuff.

 

[UniqueMixture]

He did it because the Lord had turned away from him and he couldn't have the counsel of a Prophet. Saul is defeated in battle the next day and commits suicide.

Yeah, I was reading over it today. It's been a long time since I read through the bible so my mistake.

 

[Rukargi]

As a 35 year veteran tarot reader, astrologer and rune reader I have to say yes it is. Many psychics feel that they use divination to help people. However what they are doing is advising people to step off of the difficult narrow path and take the easy route, that nice wide road that allows us to walk around difficulties and life's trails. Basically turning people away from Christ. Which for those of the Christian faith is one of the worse things you can do.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and learn not unto thine own understanding.