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  1. #51
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Jesus existed as a man, and there is a God, but he is so great that we can not understand him with our finite minds. At best Jesus was not God himself, but a symbol of God. So we have to understand his task as a Messiah symbollically. Believe in Jesus, you will be saved because you've just stepped onto the path to salvation by embracing the symbol of God. Its basically like stepping into the door that you don't know what leads to, you just know its something great beyond your comprehension. Thats how I interpret it.
    Okay -- as long as you acknowledge that to be a belief. (based on the assumption in bold above.)

    On the other hand, maybe you are not debating whether Jesus was God per se.... but simply that Jesus was [like a Word, which John actually called him] merely a "pointer" to a deeper truth? This interpretation would preserve both Jesus being God as well as Jesus being symbolic, if you can handle paradox.

    All right, back to your regularly scheduled Satanist hodgepodge.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #52
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Okay -- as long as you acknowledge that to be a belief. (based on the assumption in bold above.)

    On the other hand, maybe you are not debating whether Jesus was God per se.... but simply that Jesus was [like a Word, which John actually called him] merely a "pointer" to a deeper truth? This interpretation would preserve both Jesus being God as well as Jesus being symbolic, if you can handle paradox.

    All right, back to your regularly scheduled Satanist hodgepodge.
    The thing is, I dont believe that we can say that Jesus was God because we don't know what God is. God, as described in the Bible is just far too great for us to fathom. Its basically like he is an infinite and all powerful being, yet we can only fathom (understand through experience) what is finite. We can talk about infinity, but then it would have to be symbollic and not experiential.

    Accordingly, Jesus may have had the essence of God dwelling in him, yet again we would not be able to grasp it so we have to treat him as just a symbol. This does not make him any less divine, this only acknowledges the limitations of human understanding.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #53
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    As an agnostic it makes no more sense to me to believe/worship Satan than it does to believe/worship God.

    Even if Satanism is not about worshipping Satan and it is actually a philosophy, why call it by the name of a figure in Christianism? It seems to me that the only point is in creating a shock effect, to attract youngsters who feel seduced at the idea of rebelling against Christianism.

  4. #54

    Default sorry to go off a bit...

    My problem with the LaVey version of Satanism is that everyone assumes it is his coined term and his idea.

    Some people do truly worship the 'adversary' (since Satan or Lucifer or the Devil being 'evil' and the opposing force of God, the dark to the light, was an invention and untrue in the first place...) or simply fall under the pejorative 'Satanist' due to paganism beliefs and the like... which, also bothers the hell out of me, since the Old Religions came before Christianity -- damn thing wouldn't exist without them...

    I know that many people here may know better, but never the less -- if you say you're a Satanist, people think LaVey -- not the original rebellion brought on by the peasants sick and tired of the rulings of the church -- which, of course at the time were far more restrictive than they are now. Having four 'clean' weeks when you are allowed to have sex with your spouse had to cause some dissent.

    Granted, looking at it objectively, LaVey did some good things for Satanism. Rejecting animal sacrifice earns him points -- rejecting Black Mass, et cetera.
    Atheism over true worship.

    I think the general ideals of the original rules set by the Witches that LaVey enjoyed so much, "An' it harm none, do what thou wilt," are good.
    People do need to look out for themselves anymore.

    I cannot say much else good for it, being that it seems to have been adopted by rambling fools (I am not speaking of the OP) who run around carving symbols in cats and quoting the Necronomicon (which has nothing to do with anything...)

    Nice idea to an extent. Bad following with poor lines of reason to follow.
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  5. #55
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methofelis View Post
    I think the general ideals of the original rules set by the Witches that LaVey enjoyed so much, "An' it harm none, do what thou wilt," are good.
    Witchcraft, as it exists today, did not exist before about 1950.

    Neopaganism is just that-- new. It has its roots in the theosophy craze of the 1800s, and drew from older descriptions of dead pagan practices, but yes, those practices were firmly killed.

    If LeVey needed to say sorry to anyone, it was probably Aleister Crowley and Friedrich Nietzsche.
    Let's do this thing.

  6. #56
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    If LeVey needed to say sorry to anyone, it was probably Aleister Crowley and Friedrich Nietzsche.
    Heh. Wasn't Crowley himself the LaVey of his day?

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Witchcraft, as it exists today, did not exist before about 1950.

    Neopaganism is just that-- new. It has its roots in the theosophy craze of the 1800s, and drew from older descriptions of dead pagan practices, but yes, those practices were firmly killed.

    If LeVey needed to say sorry to anyone, it was probably Aleister Crowley and Friedrich Nietzsche.
    Granted, and yes -- the true old Witchcraft religions were lost and bastardized many, many times over. The little shreds left, though, did make it in... and got bastardized.

    Gotta love it.

    And for making it hard for kids who dressed like me in school to avoid being called a Satanist. ... Or even to this day.

    Somehow my Isis charm means I like Lucifer. Makes sense.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    Heh. Wasn't Crowley himself the LaVey of his day?
    I think LeVey wished he were the Crowley of his day.

    Crowley was a lot more weird and subversive and un-serious. LeVey wants to be an authoity when he writes, Crowley writes in a "ha-ha, only serious" tone.
    Let's do this thing.

  9. #59
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    I agree with more points of LaVeyan satanism than I do with Christianity. I consider myself a satanist, although I am not an official member of the Church of Satan.

    Unlike the narrow-minded fundamentalist Christian, I am aware that LaVeyan satanism is not its opposite. I do not hate people who practice Christian faiths, but I am intensely critical about their beliefs and their often preposterous rituals.

    I believe it is important to stick up for yourself and to not let others push you around. I think that protecting your own existence is logically more important than protecting another. But I often have contradictory beliefs about God. On one hand, I'll look at myself as God and have solipsist inclinations.

    However, I also believe there is an even higher power than God. I have thought about our minds being programmed by our higher selves. Call it a "TRON" scenario (or "Matrix," but I hate that movie), but I believe that God is a higher spiritual version literally of ourselves.

    A higher version of myself has programmed every single detail of my life and has plugged himself into a simulation to live life as me. So I guess you can say I borrowed some ideas from "Total Recall."

    Since I believe that, I don't see life as a really big deal, and I laugh at people who value preservation of human life above all else. I mean, why is it so valuable? If it was really that valuable, wouldn't it last forever?

    I think that when we die, we will wake up from the "simulation" and realize it was all in good fun of creating our own life. And then we would go ahead and program our next lives. We may program for ourselves a satisfying life, a boring life, or a depressing life, because life, like a dream, will soon end and we will wake up in death and realize that such an experience was actually quite intriguing, and like a nightmare, we sometimes enjoy them after we realize it wasn't real.

    So that's what I believe...I hope my wording was clear enough.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Since I believe that, I don't see life as a really big deal, and I laugh at people who value preservation of human life above all else. I mean, why is it so valuable? If it was really that valuable, wouldn't it last forever?
    Well, I see your point, but I would contend that it's valuable precisely because it doesn't last forever...

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