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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default To what extent does other peoples lack of self-awareness bother you?

    When I'm talking to people or reading posts in a forum or reading opinion pieces in news articles or just about anything I can almost immediately identify the scripts or filters which are at play in the communication.

    I find it really remarkable how few people I find are not like a living version of an internet meme on some topics, while others it is not so much a topical thing but how they are, the topic could change but the same "accents" or interpretations etc. will exhibit themselves again and again. This is something, which looking back at journals I kept from years ago, I would myself have engaged in, although not always without knowing, sometimes just because it was easier and it was a sort of lazy cognition. Although the fact was that then and now I could not have been easily or completely satisfied with it. Even in others, to a greater or lesser extent, it bothers me, particularly if those same people are going to be in positions of power or decision making responsibility, and virtually everyone is from time to time.

    My questions for this thread are do you ever experience this yourself? When you do does it provoke any sort of response in yourself? Are you just inclined to shrug and say, "yeah, sure, nice that you feel that way", or do you want to correct some error you perceive? Does it make you feel resigned or disappointed or is it just one of those things doesnt bother you but confirms some generalisations or thinking of your own?

  2. #2
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    It used to stagger me. Now it makes me lol. Like, right now.
    It's actually the only entertainment this forum still offers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    It used to stagger me. Now it makes me lol. Like, right now.
    It's actually the only entertainment this forum still offers.
    Forums arent just for entertainment though.

    Stagger is a good word, I'm going to use that in relation to this topic in future.

  4. #4
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    All human beings are united by the absurdity of our condition. It's simultaneously endearing and infuriating. But mostly it's just amusing.

    I stumbled upon the Richard Dawkin's site for rationality and reason, (or some such pomposity) the other day, and a thread in which one woman asked for the evolutionary rationale for women like her who do not want to have children. Of course, it was a stupid question (as many posters did not hesitate to point out )but more interesting were all the (non-rational) rationalisations provided both for having and not having children:

    "I choose not to have children because it's a wicked and overpopulated world. This makes me better than the selfish people who choose to have children."

    " I choose not to have children but just enjoy lots of sex because I'm smart and have outwitted biology. This makes me better than the idiots who get saddled with dependent brats for the best part of their lives."

    "I choose to have children because most children are born to poor, illiterate believers in the third world and it's my job to inject some quality into the gene pool. This makes me better than you selfish fuckers who refuse to play your part in shaping a new atheist society."

    "I chose not to have children but instead adopt. This makes me more selfless and compassionate than any of you guys. And in fact, women like me who cannot/do not have children are Nature's way of ensuring there are plenty of 'aunties' to go around and care for the waifs and strays."

    Some of these arguments are more logic-defying than others. None of them are particularly rational, so I guess Dawkins is guilty of some false advertising.
    But what seems to be universal is the human need to justify one's actions as noble, or even inevitable.
    I've been guilty of claiming the first argument myself as virtuous justification for my own inclinations. I refuse to do that now. The reason I don't have children is because I don't want to have children and I'm sure if I did want to have one enough, I would, and I hope I wouldn't invoke any of the excuses given above. I was about to post to this effect when I realised I was guilty of the very thing I was intending to accuse those others of: holding up my own choices as better than theirs. This made me chuckle. And what would the point be? All I would do is alienate people, as I so often do on this board when I indulge my egotistical compulsion to point out inconsistencies in reasoning. People need their illusions. Sometimes self-awareness isn't particularly helpful. Don't they say that the people with the most accurate understanding / estimation of themselves are the depressed? Live and let live. And allow yourself a chuckle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #5
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    I can see the filters fairly easily as well, usually, but I also allow for the possibility that I may be mistaken. Usually when it appears as if there is a lack of critical thinking on someone's part, that does indeed turn out to be the case, but occasionally, upon further investigation, I find that the person has truly thought things through and simply reached a different conclusion than I would have. In that case, I have to chalk it up to everyone's right to his or her own opinion, and let it go.

    Also, sometimes, what I see as a filter has a deeper explanation than lack of critical though-- cultural bias, for example. It is really difficult to remove oneself from one's culture, so while I may try to gently coax a person to look at an issue from outside of their cultural context, it is not always going to be possible, and again I have to concede that different cultures hold different beliefs, and that trying to impose the mores and values of my culture on someone of another cultural background is arrogant and inappropriate.

    If the filter is simply a result of brainwashing or propaganda, I may also attempt to gently coax a person to think critically on the issue, but in the end, that kind of realization is something someone really has to make for oneself, so anything beyond a gentle nudging from an outside entity, I think, is likely to come off as aggressive, and cause the person to cling even harder to the beliefs they've been taught, and will only result in frustration on my part.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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