User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 12

  1. #1
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,764

    Default Atheists: do you believe in quarks?

    A while ago, I encountered a demotivational poster about atheism. I didn't find it back, though.
    It said something like: "Do you believe in quarks? You didn't see them or prove their existence. So that's faith."

    At first, I wanted to make a rebuttal. But, even with eight years of physics education behind me, I couldn't. I have seen atoms and electrons. I've measured radiation. But the strong force is really difficult and, as I didn't choose to specialize in it, I don't know how it works. Well, I know the basics, but not enough to prove, even to myself, that a quark exists.

    So I had to ask myself the question: why do I believe in quarks, and not in unicorns? You can call it faith, but to get rid of the religious overlay, I'd choose to call it trust. I believe in quarks because some people have told me about them and I trust those people. Now, of course, why do I trust the quark people and not the unicorn people?

    Because the quark people, the scientists, have told me many more things I COULD check and measure. I've spent my whole life being interested in science and measuring things. Because the scientists are the ones who encouraged me to observe and pose hypotheses and experiment and make conclusions. I can't test everything myself, because I don't have the time and money for that. So I do understand the electromagnetic and the weak force in terms of particles like electrons and photons and neutrinos. And when they say "the strong force is just like that, but with quarks and gluons", I tend to believe them. They fit with the other particles. To be really precise: I believe the Standard Model is a good model to predict particle behaviour.

    The unicorn people never showed me unicorns, dragons, fairies, ghosts or anything else that would help me believe in unicorns. Worse, they tend to say you have to have faith, that it is a virtue to believe without any evidence.


    A last thing. You are free to believe in unicorns. I won't hinder you. BUT.
    1) If you want ME to believe too, you know what you have to do. Evidence, please. No emotional blackmailing.
    2) If some idiot insults the unicorn, you don't start killing random people who have nothing to do with it. Wear a T-shirt with "Proud Unicornist" on it. Insult the quark. But don't riot and destroy and kill because of an idiot.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    existence of quarks is quite a lot of more probable hypothesis than god(as defined in bible) is.

    #1 rule of science, there are no absolute truths and nothing can be proven without a doubt, there are just probable hypotheses.

    naturally everyones world view is based on beliefs(only a fool would deny that), but what you base these beliefs on is the real difference between religion vs science. whether you look at whats most probable thing with current knowledge or whether you believe because someone told you to believe and not question the belief.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #3
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,764

    Default

    Er, that's just my point. Quarks just do fit better in a world of electrons and photons...
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  4. #4
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    xNTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/so
    Posts
    1,986

    Default

    I'm not an Athiest...

    I'm a Satanist

    Hail Satan.

  5. #5
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,664

    Default

    I guess in order to provide an answer this question further, I'd have to ask: Is the existence of quarks a scientific law/fact/whatever at this point or is it still in the theoretical stages? I ask because my knowledge of quarks is that of a layperson
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    I'm not an Athiest...
    I have that same shirt you wear in your avatar.

    I got it as a trophy from a christian I battled in theology, ethics, morals and metaphysics for two hours at a fair while being shitfaced.

  7. #7
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Faith basically is trust.

  8. #8
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Science is trust too but with less emotional attachment.

    Its goal is finding the truth instead of possessing the truth.

  9. #9
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Science is trust too but with less emotional attachment.

    Its goal is finding the truth instead of possessing the truth.
    Sounds like St. Anselm's maxim of "faith seeking understanding."

  10. #10
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,860

    Default

    Science seeks to verify reality through repeatable experimentation. I would not call this a pursuit of truth, which is a moral charged term.

    'Faith' is what you utilize when your hunches seem true to you, but are unprovable and probably untestable. this condition has nothing to do with the aims of science!

Similar Threads

  1. Do you believe in the Efficient Market Theory?
    By Gamine in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-20-2009, 04:28 PM
  2. Do you believe in hope without despair?
    By Zrenn in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 01-27-2009, 09:45 PM
  3. Do you believe in natural rights?
    By Kiddo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-26-2008, 01:27 PM
  4. Do you believe in a higher power?
    By ygolo in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-03-2007, 08:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO