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  1. #31
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Verily, yea verily I say unto thee, take ye not lightly Thurgmagurgh the Bony Squid
    Come ye who would be blessed and let him supplicate to Their Tentacular Hand
    See ye with the Eye of thine Eye
    Speak ye with the Mouth of thine Mouth
    Sing ye thy Thurg and praise ye thy Magurgh and utter ye thy Dirge of the Thousand Blistered Tongues
    Thus They commandeth ye

    Amen.

  2. #32
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post

    Antitheists have a tendency to hold somewhat absolutist positions, don't they?
    Yes. Which means that the idea that the entire west has adopted a fundamentally secularist culture is absolutely bunk! If the west adopted a fundamentally secularist culture then everyone in the west would be neutral about religion. We would be either ignorant of it, or would be absolutely dispassionate about its presence in society. (crossed out because if it was present, then not everyone would be dispassionate about it). Even if the religious artifacts of a culture were completely erased, I would bet all of my savings that, because our minds are metaphysical, religious outcroppings would develop as we developed more artifacts to reflect the metaphysical.

  3. #33
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    364 out of 10,000 years of "modern" religion isn't all that long. Maybe convalescence is a better term.



    Antitheists have a tendency to hold somewhat absolutist positions, don't they?
    10,000 years of religion out of 200,000 of homo sapiens existence is not that long either especially since we just may be one tiny step in a much longer/bigger/more widespread
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #34
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Yes. Which means that the idea that the entire west has adopted a fundamentally secularist culture is absolutely bunk! If the west adopted a fundamentally secularist culture then everyone in the west would be neutral about religion. We would be either ignorant of it, or would be absolutely dispassionate about its presence in society. (crossed out because if it was present, then not everyone would be dispassionate about it). Even if the religious artifacts of a culture were completely erased, I would bet all of my savings that, because our minds are metaphysical, religious outcroppings would develop as we developed more artifacts to reflect the metaphysical.
    Depends on the kind of secularism you are talking about. Secular in India for example is a totally different concept than what secular is here.

  5. #35
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Depends on the kind of secularism you are talking about. Secular in India for example is a totally different concept than what secular is here.
    Explain.

  6. #36
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Explain.
    Over there it doesn't mean 'not religious'. India is constitutionally a secular state, but in their context it means tolerance of all religions and keeping religion out of government rather than disregarding religion.

    It doesn't always work that way in practice, obviously. But basically over there, in theory, it's about not having one state religion or 'true' religion and speaks to religious equality instead of secularism in the sense of ignoring religion.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I don't think religion is dying.

  8. #38
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    But there is always something sad about seeing fundamentals leave. I don't want those tiny tribes in the Amazon to cease existing and start using money. I don't want to see Roman Catholic churches stop using Latin. I think youth are quick to forget the roots of things.. and I'm not sure exactly what, but I know there is importance in those things beyond them just being historically what's happened. It is why I still do rituals at all, and still acknowledge Pagan holidays and read Tarot occasionally.
    The Catholics abandoned Latin decades ago. The things you mention are primarily cultural, and I am sorry to see them go as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    If anything, religion is "growing up".
    This is a good thing.
    I hope this is happening. Part of this growing up process is understanding what questions religion can answer, and which it cannot. I would like to think that at least blind adherence to religion is dying, but I see evidence to the contrary every day.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #39
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Do you think religion is dying?
    I hope so.

  10. #40
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    One theory is that "the form" of religion was pretty much embodied in the Temple ystem of the Biblical Old Covenent. When it was destroyed in AD70 (in what in this theory is actually the "end-of-the-world judgment", not something literal and yet future to us), then the form of religion began disappearing. ritual sacrifice has disappeared from most religions, where it was once universal.
    Religion then began reforming itself, to be less ritualistic, but then still retained control (In Christianity, it involved bringing a lot of ritual back, but not as far as actual sacrifices, instead, then they substituted "spiritual" ones).

    But as times changed, printing was invented so people could read for themselves, and scientific discoveres challenged a lot of that control, and peopel began throwing off a lot of religion. MEanwhiule, from within, many belivers were forced to come more to terms with culture and change some things. A few even began moving away from the form altogether (Such as the home/cell church movement).

    Also, greater conscience in mankind in general, though it is still spreading slowly. As one person recently said in a discussion I'm in:
    How does everyone feel about democracy now?
    How would you have felt about it 500 years ago?
    How does everyone here feel about slavery?
    How would you have felt about slavery 2000 years ago?
    How does everyone here feel about women's rights?
    How would you have felt about women's rights 300 years ago?"

    Form religion often tries to prove iself by saying things are getting worse, but in may ways, they have gotten better, even man's conscience, and what religion had often insisted God has told them their mission was (i.e. to enslave others). Of course, man doesn't always obeys conscience, and we may have built more powerful weapons (hence the illusion that things are totally worse, "we can now destroy all life so it must be 'the end'", etc), but then this just shows the need for continuing grace.
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