Sympathy and Respect: Defining Definitions

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Thread split from here.

The problem seems to be that many of these threads turn into petty semantics because everyone has their own definition....


That is why I would like to see people adhere to a definition instead of just making up their own.


Nothing bugs me more than seeing someone who is clearly intolerant justify their intolerance by arguing their own personalized definition of tolerance.

This from the man who thinks the meaning of the word sympathy equals tolerance and respect?

I think the dictionary definitions of words suffice.

 

[Kiddo]

This from the man who thinks sympathy equals tolerance and respect?

I think the dictionary definitions of words suffice.

I provided dictionary definitions and you argued against my dictionary definitions with your own personal definition. Do I need to go find the actual posts in question and point out to you how I posted definitions directly from Princeton?

Seriously, nothing pisses me off more than when you go through the trouble of actually posting the definition and people simply ignore it.

 

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I provided dictionary definitions and you argued against my dictionary definitions with your own personal definition. Do I need to go find the actual posts in question and point out to you how I posted definitions directly from Princeton?

Seriously, nothing pisses me off more than when you go through the trouble of actually posting the definition and people simply ignore it.

I know just what you mean.

Long post where I explain that while I can feel sympathy for those who engage in behavors I see as harmful to others, I cannot tolerate their actions.

Well it seems we have come to a shaky consensus then. We both agree that we can tolerate people who do bad things, but we can't tolerate the bad things they do. We just have different approaches to coming to that conclusion.

Just to be clear:

When I say sympathy, I mean definition 2. B. here.

I don't mean any of this definition of tolerate.

Meh, semantics. Sympathy is respect.

Sympathy is not respect! :steam:

 

[Kiddo]

I know just what you mean.

Funny how you posted that out of context. Especially since I provided the defintion I got from Princeton a couple pages back.

Tolerance: willingness to recognize and respect the beliefs or practices of others and a disposition to allow freedom of choice and behavior

 

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Funny how you posted that out of context. Especially since I provided the defintion I got from Princeton a couple pages back.

When did I dispute your definition of tolerance? I said I do not and will not condone or tolerate behaviors that I believe to be harmful to others. You attempted to drag the issue of education and sympathy into the issue of tolerance. One can sympathize with someone and learn about them and still not tolerate what they do. Sympathy is not respect.

 

[Kiddo]

When did I dispute your definition of tolerance? I said I do not and will not condone or tolerate behaviors that I believe to be harmful to others. You attempted to drag the issue of education and sympathy into the issue of tolerance. One can sympathize with someone and learn about them and still not tolerate what they do. Sympathy is not respect.

I posted the definitions of sympathy and respect from Princeton as well.

Respect: deference: courteous regard for people's feelings

Sympathy: sharing the feelings of others

Sound pretty much the same to me.

And what does any of this have to do with to do with this thread? This thread was meant to settle on a definition of tolerance and freedom, to which I pulled definitions from the internet. Do I need to add the definitions of sympathy and respect as well?

 

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And what does any of this have to do with to do with this thread?

It means that you attempt to make your own definitions as well when it suits your cause. Why should Princeton have a different definition for sympathy than websters or any other dictionary? Sympathy is not respect. One need not have tolerance or reverence for things they have sympathy/pity for.

 

[Kiddo]

It means that you attempt to make your own definitions as well when it suits your cause. Why should Princeton have a different definition for sympathy than websters or any other dictionary? Sympathy is not respect.

Last definition in nouns
WordNet Search - 3.0

Second definition in nouns
WordNet Search - 3.0

Indeed. Why should there be more than one? Why can't we settle on one?

I didn't make up shit. I took my deifntions straight from Princeton. I would thank you to keep your unsupported judgments to yourself.

 

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Last definition in nouns
WordNet Search - 3.0

Second definition in nouns
WordNet Search - 3.0

Indeed. Why should there be more than one? Why can't we settle on one?

I didn't make up shit. I took my deifntions straight from Princeton. I would thank you to keep your unsupported judgments to yourself.

I made clear which definitions I meant when I said the word sympathy. You are being intolerant of my personal choice, which is not very relativist of you.

 

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S: deference, respect, respectfulness (courteous regard for people's feelings) "in deference to your wishes"; "out of respect for his privacy"

S: sympathy, fellow feeling (sharing the feelings of others (especially feelings of sorrow or anguish))

Okay, there are your choices. Having deference is not the same as sharing! Explain how these choices justify sympathy equals respect.

 

[Kiddo]

I made clear which definitions I meant when I said the word sympathy. You are being intolerant of my personal choice, which is not very relativist of you.

Fine, I'll change my type to INFP. Now I can be as intolerant and disrespectful as I want. And I will also reject the definition of "analogy" since I think things in analogies should be the same.

S: deference, respect, respectfulness (courteous regard for people's feelings) "in deference to your wishes"; "out of respect for his privacy"

S: sympathy, fellow feeling (sharing the feelings of others (especially feelings of sorrow or anguish))

Okay, there are your choices. Having deference is not the same as sharing! Explain how these choices justify sympathy equals respect.

2nd defintion
WordNet Search - 3.0

Exact same argument I made before.

Respect: deference: courteous regard for people's feelings

Sympathy: sharing the feelings of others

Sound pretty much the same to me.

That is how synonyms work.

Are you saying that having a "courteous regard" for feelings is not the same as "sharing" feelings? How can you have a courteous regard for feelings if you can't share feelings?

The definitions of "regard"
WordNet Search - 3.0

 

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Fine, I'll change my type to INFP. Now I can be as intolerant and disrespectful as I want.

I don't see being intolerant of evil as the great wrong that you seem to want to paint it. Your implication here of this being shameful has no effect on me. I am not propagandized to respond to the relavist lingo.

One can refuse to tolerate abuse or other harmful behaviors from others whilst still respecting them. You are trying to tie together two terms that are not necessarily related to each other.

2nd defintion
WordNet Search - 3.0

Exact same argument I made before.



That is how synonyms work.

Are you saying that having a "courteous regard" for feelings is not the same as "sharing" feelings? How can you have a courteous regard for feelings if you can't share feelings?

The definitions of "regard"
WordNet Search - 3.0

Having a polite regard for someone's feelings is not the same as sharing them. I have a high regard for the way some thinkers can be more impersonal in their thinking. I don't share that ability, but I can respect it.

I can share the feeling that some feelers have about wanting to deny the unpleasant in life, but I don't respect it as a choice.

 

[disregard]

Respect is more a detached, intellectual understanding of another's POV.

Sympathy is more about expressing (or feeling) compassion for that POV.

 

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Respect is more a detached, intellectual understanding of another's POV.

Sympathy is more about expressing (or feeling) compassion for that POV.

There's also deference and esteem in the word respect. One can sympathize with someone's position and not necessarily feel deference or esteem for their position.

I can feel sympathy for a bully for the suffering and things in life that turned them that way, but I cannot respect their choice to deal with those challenges in that way.

 

[Kiddo]

I don't see being intolerant of evil as the great wrong that you seem to want to paint it. Your implication here of this being shameful has no effect on me. I am not propagandized to respond to the relavist lingo.

What is your definition of intolerance? I'm not trying to be a relativist here. Did you not see the OP? I'm seeking the most objective definition possible. The fact that you aren't even aware of that much clearly shows that you are nothing more than a troll in this thread.

By the definition I posted earlier, "refusal to tolerate" is not the same as "intolerance".

One can refuse to tolerate abuse or other harmful behaviors from others whilst still respecting them. You are trying to tie together two terms that are not necessarily related to each other.

Wait a second. I thought you never challenged me on my definition of "tolerance". I thought it was my definitions of "sympathy and respect" that you had a problem with. :rolli:

In fact I believe you said....

When did I dispute your definition of tolerance? I said I do not and will not condone or tolerate behaviors that I believe to be harmful to others. You attempted to drag the issue of education and sympathy into the issue of tolerance. One can sympathize with someone and learn about them and still not tolerate what they do. Sympathy is not respect.

Now lets just pull out these two sentences.

One can refuse to tolerate abuse or other harmful behaviors from others whilst still respecting them.

One can sympathize with someone and learn about them and still not tolerate what they do

Interesting. Very interesting. So according to you, they aren't the same, but you can do both of them while refusing to tolerate something else someone does. So exactly how are they different again?

Having a polite regard for someone's feelings is not the same as sharing them. I have a high regard for the way some thinkers can be more impersonal in their thinking. I don't share that ability, but I can respect it.

What does sharing an ability have to do with sharing feelings? :rolli:

I can share the feeling that some feelers have about wanting to deny the unpleasant in life, but I don't respect it as a choice.

Huh?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by heart
One can refuse to tolerate abuse or other harmful behaviors from others whilst still respecting them.

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Originally Posted by heart
One can sympathize with someone and learn about them and still not tolerate what they do

Interesting. Very interesting. So according to you, they aren't the same, but you can do both of them while refusing to tolerate something else someone does. So exactly how are they different again?

I can sleep and take a shower, but unlikely to either while eating. Does that make sleeping and taking a shower the same too? Is that how you decide word meanings?

 

[Kiddo]

I can both sleep and take a shower, but unlikely to either while eating. Does that make sleeping and taking a shower the same too? Is that how you decide word meanings?

I never said they were the same thing simply because you can do both. You must have missed my question.

So exactly how are they different again?

I mean, I posted two definitions that I felt collaborated. A courteous regard for people's feelings and sharing people's feelings. If they aren't the same thing, then they are pretty damn close. Of course, you could just simply ask, can you respect someone without being sympathetic towards them or can you sympathize with someone without having respect for them? By the definitions I posted earlier, I couldn't either way. Maybe you could, but I wonder if that would be by those definitions of "respect" and "sympathy" or your own.

Anywho, I'm still waiting to hear what a difference in opinion on the definitions of sympathy and respect has to do with the definitions of tolerance and freedom? Or are you just dragging up old dirt so you can troll my thread?

 

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What is your definition of intolerance? I'm not trying to be a relativist here. Did you not see the OP? I'm seeking the most objective definition possible. The fact that you aren't even aware of that much clearly shows that you are nothing more than a troll in this thread....

By the definition I posted earlier, "refusal to tolerate" is not the same as "intolerance".


Wait a second. I thought you never challenged me on my definition of "tolerance". I thought it was my definitions of "sympathy and respect" that you had a problem with.

The sympathy and respect thing came out of you insisting that people need to tolerate behaviors of others in their community even when they believe those behaviors to be harmful to others.

You keep changing from speaking of tolerating *opinions and beliefs* and then applying it to behaviors as well. The word intolerance, according to the princeton site, applies only to opinions and beliefs, says nothing of abusive or harmful behaviors. The word tolerate is more complex than simple intolerance of belief, opinion and petty annoyances.

So do you want to swtich to intolerance or continue to discuss the word tolerance and you attachment of the sympathy-respect to the issue of tolerance? Or do want to switch to intolerance as defined by Princeton?

 

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I mean, I posted two definitions that I felt collaborated. A courteous regard for people's feelings and sharing people's feelings. If they aren't the same thing, then they are pretty damn close. Of course, you could just simply ask, can you respect someone without being sympathetic towards them or can you sympathize with someone without having respect for them? By the definitions I posted earlier, I couldn't either way. Maybe you could, but I wonder if that would be by those definitions of "respect" and "sympathy" or your own.

Anywho, I'm still waiting to hear what a difference in opinion on the definitions of sympathy and respect has to do with the definitions of tolerance and freedom? Or are you just dragging up old dirt so you can troll my thread?

You are the one who said brought the issue of sympathy and respect into the tolerance issue before. When I said that I could sympathize with people but not tolerate their behaviors, you said that sympathy was the same as respect.

Now in this thread, you have the audicity to accuse others of making up definitions to words without regard for word meanings, which is seems sort of hypocritical based on our previous discussion.

Your continued use of the word troll does not affect me one way or the other.

I could easily have sympathy for someone I didn't respect and I gave you an example. Furthermore I have already given you my definition of sympathy from the dictionary itself, which you disagreed with, saying sympathy meant respect instead. You said it was mere semantics.

can you respect someone without being sympathetic towards them

"Rommel, you magnificent bastard. I read your book!" Patton

 

[Kiddo]

The sympathy and respect thing came out of you insisting that people need to tolerate behaviors of others in their community even when they believe those behaviors to be harmful to others.

When did I say that? I argued that people should respect and/or be sympathetic (see how nice I am to use and/or) towards others even if they refuse to tolerate what they do.

You keep changing from speaking of tolerating *opinions and beliefs* and then applying it to behaviors as well. The word intolerance, according to the princeton site, applies only to opinions and beliefs, says nothing of abusive or harmful behaviors. The word tolerate is more complex than simple intolerance of belief, opinion and petty annoyances.

I posted the definitions of tolerance and freedom I got from off google in the OP.

So do you want to swtich to intolerance or continue to discuss the word tolerance and you attachment of the sympathy-respect to the issue of tolerance? Or do want to switch to intolerance as defined by Princeton?

I was seeking an objective definition based on a pooling of definitions since there is more than one, and people make up their own.

define: tolerance - Google Search
define: freedom - Google Search

If you have issue with my definition of intolerance, then I'll look into more definitions. I reasoned that intolerance would be the opposite of tolerance, since the prefix "in" means "not". So I defined intolerance as the opposite of tolerance as you can clearly see from my OP.