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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart
    I made clear which definitions I meant when I said the word sympathy. You are being intolerant of my personal choice, which is not very relativist of you.


    Fine, I'll change my type to INFP. Now I can be as intolerant and disrespectful as I want. And I will also reject the definition of "analogy" since I think things in analogies should be the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    S: (n) deference, respect, respectfulness (courteous regard for people's feelings) "in deference to your wishes"; "out of respect for his privacy"

    S: (n) sympathy, fellow feeling (sharing the feelings of others (especially feelings of sorrow or anguish))

    Okay, there are your choices. Having deference is not the same as sharing! Explain how these choices justify sympathy equals respect.
    2nd defintion
    WordNet Search - 3.0

    Exact same argument I made before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo
    Respect: deference: courteous regard for people's feelings

    Sympathy: sharing the feelings of others

    Sound pretty much the same to me.
    That is how synonyms work.

    Are you saying that having a "courteous regard" for feelings is not the same as "sharing" feelings? How can you have a courteous regard for feelings if you can't share feelings?

    The definitions of "regard"
    WordNet Search - 3.0
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post


    Fine, I'll change my type to INFP. Now I can be as intolerant and disrespectful as I want.
    I don't see being intolerant of evil as the great wrong that you seem to want to paint it. Your implication here of this being shameful has no effect on me. I am not propagandized to respond to the relavist lingo.

    One can refuse to tolerate abuse or other harmful behaviors from others whilst still respecting them. You are trying to tie together two terms that are not necessarily related to each other.


    2nd defintion
    WordNet Search - 3.0

    Exact same argument I made before.



    That is how synonyms work.

    Are you saying that having a "courteous regard" for feelings is not the same as "sharing" feelings? How can you have a courteous regard for feelings if you can't share feelings?

    The definitions of "regard"
    WordNet Search - 3.0

    Having a polite regard for someone's feelings is not the same as sharing them. I have a high regard for the way some thinkers can be more impersonal in their thinking. I don't share that ability, but I can respect it.

    I can share the feeling that some feelers have about wanting to deny the unpleasant in life, but I don't respect it as a choice.

  3. #13
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    Respect is more a detached, intellectual understanding of another's POV.

    Sympathy is more about expressing (or feeling) compassion for that POV.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Respect is more a detached, intellectual understanding of another's POV.

    Sympathy is more about expressing (or feeling) compassion for that POV.
    There's also deference and esteem in the word respect. One can sympathize with someone's position and not necessarily feel deference or esteem for their position.

    I can feel sympathy for a bully for the suffering and things in life that turned them that way, but I cannot respect their choice to deal with those challenges in that way.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I don't see being intolerant of evil as the great wrong that you seem to want to paint it. Your implication here of this being shameful has no effect on me. I am not propagandized to respond to the relavist lingo.
    What is your definition of intolerance? I'm not trying to be a relativist here. Did you not see the OP? I'm seeking the most objective definition possible. The fact that you aren't even aware of that much clearly shows that you are nothing more than a troll in this thread.

    By the definition I posted earlier, "refusal to tolerate" is not the same as "intolerance".

    One can refuse to tolerate abuse or other harmful behaviors from others whilst still respecting them. You are trying to tie together two terms that are not necessarily related to each other.
    Wait a second. I thought you never challenged me on my definition of "tolerance". I thought it was my definitions of "sympathy and respect" that you had a problem with. :rolli:

    In fact I believe you said....

    Quote Originally Posted by heart
    When did I dispute your definition of tolerance? I said I do not and will not condone or tolerate behaviors that I believe to be harmful to others. You attempted to drag the issue of education and sympathy into the issue of tolerance. One can sympathize with someone and learn about them and still not tolerate what they do. Sympathy is not respect.
    Now lets just pull out these two sentences.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart
    One can refuse to tolerate abuse or other harmful behaviors from others whilst still respecting them.
    Quote Originally Posted by heart
    One can sympathize with someone and learn about them and still not tolerate what they do
    Interesting. Very interesting. So according to you, they aren't the same, but you can do both of them while refusing to tolerate something else someone does. So exactly how are they different again?

    Having a polite regard for someone's feelings is not the same as sharing them. I have a high regard for the way some thinkers can be more impersonal in their thinking. I don't share that ability, but I can respect it.
    What does sharing an ability have to do with sharing feelings? :rolli:

    I can share the feeling that some feelers have about wanting to deny the unpleasant in life, but I don't respect it as a choice.
    Huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  6. #16
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heart
    One can refuse to tolerate abuse or other harmful behaviors from others whilst still respecting them.
    :
    Originally Posted by heart
    One can sympathize with someone and learn about them and still not tolerate what they do
    Interesting. Very interesting. So according to you, they aren't the same, but you can do both of them while refusing to tolerate something else someone does. So exactly how are they different again?
    I can sleep and take a shower, but unlikely to either while eating. Does that make sleeping and taking a shower the same too? Is that how you decide word meanings?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I can both sleep and take a shower, but unlikely to either while eating. Does that make sleeping and taking a shower the same too? Is that how you decide word meanings?
    I never said they were the same thing simply because you can do both. You must have missed my question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo
    So exactly how are they different again?
    I mean, I posted two definitions that I felt collaborated. A courteous regard for people's feelings and sharing people's feelings. If they aren't the same thing, then they are pretty damn close. Of course, you could just simply ask, can you respect someone without being sympathetic towards them or can you sympathize with someone without having respect for them? By the definitions I posted earlier, I couldn't either way. Maybe you could, but I wonder if that would be by those definitions of "respect" and "sympathy" or your own.

    Anywho, I'm still waiting to hear what a difference in opinion on the definitions of sympathy and respect has to do with the definitions of tolerance and freedom? Or are you just dragging up old dirt so you can troll my thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  8. #18
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    What is your definition of intolerance? I'm not trying to be a relativist here. Did you not see the OP? I'm seeking the most objective definition possible. The fact that you aren't even aware of that much clearly shows that you are nothing more than a troll in this thread....

    By the definition I posted earlier, "refusal to tolerate" is not the same as "intolerance".


    Wait a second. I thought you never challenged me on my definition of "tolerance". I thought it was my definitions of "sympathy and respect" that you had a problem with.
    The sympathy and respect thing came out of you insisting that people need to tolerate behaviors of others in their community even when they believe those behaviors to be harmful to others.

    You keep changing from speaking of tolerating *opinions and beliefs* and then applying it to behaviors as well. The word intolerance, according to the princeton site, applies only to opinions and beliefs, says nothing of abusive or harmful behaviors. The word tolerate is more complex than simple intolerance of belief, opinion and petty annoyances.

    So do you want to swtich to intolerance or continue to discuss the word tolerance and you attachment of the sympathy-respect to the issue of tolerance? Or do want to switch to intolerance as defined by Princeton?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I mean, I posted two definitions that I felt collaborated. A courteous regard for people's feelings and sharing people's feelings. If they aren't the same thing, then they are pretty damn close. Of course, you could just simply ask, can you respect someone without being sympathetic towards them or can you sympathize with someone without having respect for them? By the definitions I posted earlier, I couldn't either way. Maybe you could, but I wonder if that would be by those definitions of "respect" and "sympathy" or your own.

    Anywho, I'm still waiting to hear what a difference in opinion on the definitions of sympathy and respect has to do with the definitions of tolerance and freedom? Or are you just dragging up old dirt so you can troll my thread?
    You are the one who said brought the issue of sympathy and respect into the tolerance issue before. When I said that I could sympathize with people but not tolerate their behaviors, you said that sympathy was the same as respect.

    Now in this thread, you have the audicity to accuse others of making up definitions to words without regard for word meanings, which is seems sort of hypocritical based on our previous discussion.

    Your continued use of the word troll does not affect me one way or the other.

    I could easily have sympathy for someone I didn't respect and I gave you an example. Furthermore I have already given you my definition of sympathy from the dictionary itself, which you disagreed with, saying sympathy meant respect instead. You said it was mere semantics.

    can you respect someone without being sympathetic towards them
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    The sympathy and respect thing came out of you insisting that people need to tolerate behaviors of others in their community even when they believe those behaviors to be harmful to others.
    When did I say that? I argued that people should respect and/or be sympathetic (see how nice I am to use and/or) towards others even if they refuse to tolerate what they do.

    You keep changing from speaking of tolerating *opinions and beliefs* and then applying it to behaviors as well. The word intolerance, according to the princeton site, applies only to opinions and beliefs, says nothing of abusive or harmful behaviors. The word tolerate is more complex than simple intolerance of belief, opinion and petty annoyances.
    I posted the definitions of tolerance and freedom I got from off google in the OP.

    So do you want to swtich to intolerance or continue to discuss the word tolerance and you attachment of the sympathy-respect to the issue of tolerance? Or do want to switch to intolerance as defined by Princeton?
    I was seeking an objective definition based on a pooling of definitions since there is more than one, and people make up their own.

    define: tolerance - Google Search
    define: freedom - Google Search

    If you have issue with my definition of intolerance, then I'll look into more definitions. I reasoned that intolerance would be the opposite of tolerance, since the prefix "in" means "not". So I defined intolerance as the opposite of tolerance as you can clearly see from my OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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