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Losing my religion

The Great One

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Hey people of typology central. Listen, I’ve been having some serious issues with questioning my religion, contemplating moral values, and really wondering what happens when I die. I was really wondering if you could give me some advice. I was raised in an extremely conservative Christian household and seemed to have really (unknowingly) taken on many of my parents religious beliefs and moral values.

Now being a thinker, I don’t really listen to my parent’s religious babble much. However, apparently their religious babble has really gotten into my head over the past few years, and it’s really fucking me up mentally. For instance, I used to be in sales, and I used to have to constantly lie to people, and sometimes do less than honest things. Now to me, the lies I was telling weren’t wrong, but I certainly knew what “The Bible” would say about it. So then I would wonder things like, “Will God punish me for this?” Then, if so, how would he punish me? Then, I would contemplate all day how God would punish me for my “so called” sins. Many times I would actually wind up self-sabotaging myself mentally in a sales career I was naturally good at, because of misconstrued religious beliefs. Seriously, when I did things that I knew were Biblically wrong, I would often wind up selling way less than I would have normally. The reason being was that I would sit down and think to myself, “Well, I did this thing wrong, so maybe God will punish me this way, or this way, or maybe even this way.” Often times I would think that one of the ways that God would punish me is that he would cause me to sell less, and then I really would wind up selling less.

Quickly, I came to a realization that the reason that I wasn’t selling as much wasn’t because, “God” was punishing me, but instead because I was self-sabotaging myself into thinking that God was punishing me. At that point, I started drinking alcohol and doing drugs in order to stop my mind from thinking that God would punish me for things, and to just quiet my mind in general. Surprisingly, this idea worked pretty well, and I actually started to sell a lot more because the self-questioning would stop and I was much more confident in myself on drugs. Sadly I started to become quite the addict, but I eventually weaned myself off of the booze and the pills. However, once again the self-questioning and religious sabotaging thoughts came back and my sales sucked again. Finally, in order to just free my mind, I just became a full-out atheist for a while. I just thought, “If I can just give up religion, then I will feel like I have total control of my life. I will in essence, have an entirely external locus of control. Then, at that point I can actually do my job and the self-questioning will stop.” Well, then that helped for a while, and I was actually selling great without drugs.

However, then a new issue arrived and I started questioning if I had really made the right decision giving up my religion. I thought to myself, “Is this right? Is there really no God? Well, I had better be right because if I am wrong, I am going to go to hell.” Then, the concept of burning in hell terrified me, so I started to practice the religion again. But then later, I gave up the religion again, and was once again better. However, I then came to the realization that if there was no heaven and hell, that meant that I was just dead forever when I died, and that terrified me. So I then wondered if I should put a lot more effort into self-preservation, and preventing death in order to live the longest life possible. At this point I’m pretty much agnostic.

Listen members of typology central, I really have no idea what to do and no idea what to believe. I am frightened in every possible way, no matter which way I turn when it comes to religion. Has anyone else on this forum had trouble sorting out religious beliefs and if so, how did you sort them out?
[MENTION=16013]madhatter[/MENTION]
[MENTION=8543]Nerd Girl[/MENTION]
[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]
[MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION]
[MENTION=13260]Rasofy[/MENTION]

You folks might want to check out this thread.
 

RaptorWizard

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Hey Great One, its good to see you back :) , but anyway Hell or the Lake of Fire in my theological beliefs is not eternal torment and suffering but rather is the quick and instantaneous death of the spiritual body within a gigantic nuclear furnace aboard the space station of the super civilization of God and the only people who's existence ends in there are people who in the last days side with the devil and his antichrist so to avoid this for one thing when the government starts enforcing the Mark of the Beast aka the RFID chip please no matter what the circumstances please avoid getting this chip implanted into your finger or head or whatever at all costs as they will use these to track people and control them. Anyway that's the dark side of my theological beliefs. If you just took drugs or don't believe in God or whatever you should be fine as long as you do not deliberately fight against God.

But there is too a good side to my theological beliefs. Those who side with Christ or at least do not side with the Devil when the end times arrive will recieve salvation and will live in the beautiful city of Heavenly Jerusalem aboard the space station of the super civilization of God. Heavenly Jerusalem is in the higher dimensions of the Universe in the negative matter at a spiritual level. According to the great scientist Sir Isaac Newton Jesus will return no sooner than 2060 though he may come later.

Of course all of these beliefs of mine could be total BS but if they are not true or at least not completely true then our salvation will come from the liberating light of science as we venture beyond the sphere of mere terrestrial existence and into the stars of the heavens and eventually into the celestial realms of the Universe and ultimately the Multiverse.

Regardless of all I wrote the bottom line is that you cannot understand the glories of the Universe without believing in a supreme power.
 

The Great One

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Hey Great One, its good to see you back :) , but anyway Hell or the Lake of Fire in my theological beliefs is not eternal torment and suffering but rather is the quick and instantaneous death of the spiritual body within a gigantic nuclear furnace aboard the space station of the super civilization of God and the only people who's existence ends in there are people who in the last days side with the devil and his antichrist so to avoid this for one thing when the government starts enforcing the Mark of the Beast aka the RFID chip please no matter what the circumstances please avoid getting this chip implanted into your finger or head or whatever at all costs as they will use these to track people and control them. Anyway that's the dark side of my theological beliefs. If you just took drugs or don't believe in God or whatever you should be fine as long as you do not deliberately fight against God.

But there is too a good side to my theological beliefs. Those who side with Christ or at least do not side with the Devil when the end times arrive will recieve salvation and will live in the beautiful city of Heavenly Jerusalem aboard the space station of the super civilization of God. Heavenly Jerusalem is in the higher dimensions of the Universe in the negative matter at a spiritual level. According to the great scientist Sir Isaac Newton Jesus will return no sooner than 2060 though he may come later.

Of course all of these beliefs of mine could be total BS but if they are not true or at least not completely true then our salvation will come from the liberating light of science as we venture beyond the sphere of mere terrestrial existence and into the stars of the heavens and eventually into the celestial realms of the Universe and ultimately the Multiverse.

Regardless of all I wrote the bottom line is that you cannot understand the glories of the Universe without believing in a supreme power.

No offense guy, but where on earth did you concoct this theory? It sounds like it was created in Pee Wee's Playhouse.
 

RaptorWizard

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No offense guy, but where on earth did you concoct this theory? It sounds like it was created in Pee Wee's Playhouse.

The theory is simple. It is based on the assumption that we are not alone in the Universe. God and his angels are aliens who are far older and more advanced than us and have monitored and controlled the progressive development of man ever since our very beginning from Lemuria to Atlantis to our current program of civilization.

Of course I could be wrong though this is the best explanation I could think of connecting religion with science and creationsim with evolutionists.
 

swordpath

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I "came out" to my parents/family as being agnostic when I was 16, I believe it was. It was very hard both for them and myself, and at nearly 26 years old it is still hard. Not in that we have heated debates or anything like that, but it just takes its toll emotionally when you're close to your family yet your world view is so radically different and we just can't relate on a number of levels. It doesn't help when you tend to be a "family person" like myself. My whole immediate family is very Christian/spiritual. It is the crux of their existence. My mother runs a House of Prayer (kind of like a church yet less regimented and focused on prayer/intercession); my sister works alongside her and is a worship leader at a local church; my dad is a recording engineer in the worship music business; my brother a couple of years my junior is involved in a separate House of Prayer in another state, and my youngest brother who is 19 isn't real involved, but believes in God. That leaves me, being the only agnostic (leaning atheist).

What I wrestle with most is my own frustration with the notion of God and the inconsistencies with what the Bible says about God's nature (he LOVES us... but he's also angry and vengeful), what my family and their friends want to translate as God's nature (He loves us unconditionally) and what I actually see in this world that is full of hate/sadness/pain (there is no god, and if there is, he doesn't care about us). I just can't reconcile man's behaviors and the inconsistencies of god's nature. Furthermore, using my own logic and reasoning, religion makes a lot of sense in a more primitive time; even though a lot of mysteries have been explained (weather, disease, mental illness, etc.) people still need hope, and that's the purpose that religion and an afterlife provide. Yet I still can't understand it... The more we discover and come to know about science, the more questions that arise. That's another reason I hate god if he exists: I'm a simple minded human. Don't expect me to understand this shit, and let my soul hang in the balance like it's a fucking game.
 

swordpath

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So all that to say, uhh, I basically have no advice but I can sympathize.
 

Qlip

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Yep, grew up in a Bible cult, left at 16 and put myself together again after years and years of thought and consideration. I'm not an atheist, but it really is a valid and sensible choice. Have you ever considered the fact that you felt guilty for lying because of God, yet an atheist would feel guilty being in that position as well?
 

Wolfie

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I can sympathize. My lifelong exploration into religion and spirituality has led me to the point that I can't see any alternative to the Self (who I would say I am) being obliterated for eternity. To be honest, I just try to push those thoughts out of my head because I can't spend my whole life experiencing a fight or flight, trapped reaction. There's really nothing I can do about death, so might as well not think about it. My mind naturally explores that topic so it's hard to have the strength of mind to not go there. Because I have had this experience, I can certainly understand why others choose to have faith, because facing never-ending oblivion is a lot to ask. I am often envious of people who can truly waylay all that by having faith in an afterlife. I just can't.
 

sprinkles

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I fought with myself over this in the past and ultimately had to ask myself a few questions:

If I deserve hell, why should I be spared from it?
Who am I to make a choice on it?
Why should I be given a choice at all?

I simply can't reconcile myself with being put on the spot that way. "Be a part of something or face condemnation" is just not something that my brain can compute out of thin air, no matter how it is framed up.

It makes no sense to me. So I just say whatever's going to happen is going to happen.
 

Lark

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I think it was moses who said not one of his company ever added days to his life by thinking (or fretting) about it, I dont know whether there is life after death, I'm more interested in whether or not there is life before death and in creating something resembling the order Jesus would describe as the world to come.

The eternal fires of hell dont scare me as much as the idea of a continued existence which would be seperate from God for all eternity, I prefer the idea of oblivion to that. I was bothered about that for a time, maybe, although there are consolations to consider, Epicurius (spelling) said that sensations end when the body perishes, therefore no pain or suffering, the stoics considered a "good death" preferable to a long life of suffering or debilitating illness so I guess they believed the same thing as Epicurius on that score.

Whether you are a believer in an afterlife or not and whether you are convinced of the existence of God and believe in God (not the same thing) are not the only reasons for professing or practicing a religion. I've seen two books on religion or defence of religion by atheists lately. I do believe Voltaire's idea that if God did not exist it would have been necessary to invent him.

Robert Owen or Charles Fourier (not sure which) did say that truth and commerce go together like Jesus and Satan, so sales could be challenging if you have a compelling conscience, perhaps you could think about what any personal profit will be used for, Fourier advertised for sponsorship of his socialist intentional communities, Owen was a successful cotton mill owner and industrialist.
 

zelo1954

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Listen members of typology central, I really have no idea what to do and no idea what to believe. I am frightened in every possible way, no matter which way I turn when it comes to religion. Has anyone else on this forum had trouble sorting out religious beliefs and if so, how did you sort them out?

Whoa mate. Things aren't this bad. You, just like everyone else, are on a journey of faith. Where you are at present on this journey is very far from being at a plateau. In fact it's a crossroads. Have faith that God understands much better than any of us the tribulations we go through on this journey, that God will love you for it, and will help you. Many of us will die without ever quite having got there. That's OK too. Do you want to be with God for eternity - or do you wish for permanent separation? You'll get a choice at those metaphorical pearly gates. God is a God of love not a bloody arsehole.
 

Rasofy

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Hey bro..be strong. Life is good. :)
I can't give you the ultimate truth, but 'll answer with my personal views. Feel free to ask follow up questions.

However, then a new issue arrived and I started questioning if I had really made the right decision giving up my religion. I thought to myself, “Is this right? Is there really no God? Well, I had better be right because if I am wrong, I am going to go to hell.”
Listen, no human being is perfect. And humans who don't commit many visible sins, ime, are usually the most arrogant and selfish people that exist.


And if there's a God that creates imperfect humans and send the very same humans to hell because they have committed minor mistakes, that God is meaner than Hitler.

However, I then came to the realization that if there was no heaven and hell, that meant that I was just dead forever when I died, and that terrified me. So I then wondered if I should put a lot more effort into self-preservation, and preventing death in order to live the longest life possible.
Life is meant to be lived and enjoyed, not to be preserved. By focusing too much on self preservation, you end up wasting your life.

In the end, a well lived lifespan of 60 years will be much more rewarding than a lifespan of 100 years full of regrets.

At this point I’m pretty much agnostic.
Maybe you're in a transition to atheism?

Listen members of typology central, I really have no idea what to do and no idea what to believe. I am frightened in every possible way, no matter which way I turn when it comes to religion. Has anyone else on this forum had trouble sorting out religious beliefs and if so, how did you sort them out?
Spend a semester watching Animal Planet and then ask yourself: Would a God have created this?

Alternatively, try to realize that there are happy atheists, happy agnostics, and happy theists.

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life without trying to accomplish things just to avoid death?

And then die without making any meaningful impact in other people's lives? Without having fun, challenging yourself, learning new things, etc?

I'd also suggest watching Spartacus... I think the show gives a good idea of how it is not to take self preservation too seriously (they believe in afterlife though)

Anyways, I can't help you with your fears, you'll have to face them yourself. Just keep in mind that whatever your conclusion is, it doesn't have to be a sad or happy thing. There are pros and cons to pretty much every possibility.

If there's no God, I'm not under any sort of unquestionable divine jurisdiction.

And dude, how awesome is that. :D
 
G

Glycerine

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Be happy with your beliefs and don't worry about what others think. I have always been wary of religion because I didn't like the "fear aspect" that I came to associate with the religion I grew up with. I played by the motions of organized religion because that is what I thought I HAD TO DO as opposed to actually living by what I truly thought/believed. What's worse than trying to live by something because you feel like you have to? Why impose something like that on yourself? If religion helps you/enriches your life, then stick with it but also don't feel pressured or force it on yourself if it doesn't work for you/feels like a mindless obligation.
 

Nicodemus

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[Life story]
It seems to me your problem is not religion but a lack of Fi. You have no internal moral compass, so you choose between the one your parents offer (the Bible, which repels you because it is silly) and the one your career suggests (egoism, which conflicts with your desire to be kind). Instead, you should look within yourself, figure out what you can live with and what makes you happy. Read a few books on ethics, contemplate, decide and be done with it. I promise god is not going to give a shit.
 

ilikeitlikethat

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I wonder if my religion will have me.

If the guy who runs this church I go to knew about what I did, he'd come to me so fast and try and save me.
And me, knowing me, I won't change, and I will be cast out.

It happened before, to this girl I heard about.
 

King sns

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oh my God, I'm sorry, I only skimmed barely through the wall of text.

Anyway, I lost my religion as well for a while, you can't just follow it now, too many other possibilities, and some of it just seems shallow. I had to cut off almost completely for a while. (I say "almost" because it was ingrained in my mind since childhood.) But I was mostly an agnostic. I just had to find my own way.

Now I believe in God from my own experiences and with a great deal of thought. It took about 8 years I would say. I'm much happier with myself and my belief system now, but I don't think I could have done it without a LOT of independent thought. Now spirituality trumps religion totally but I spread my belief system amongst multiple religions.

I mostly considered myself a Catholic/Christian throughout my religious life but still have trouble wrapping my head around Jesus. (Yes, I know that's the whole point.) But I do pray a lot for more personal enlightenment on the matter. Good man? Prophet? Savior? I try to pray to Jesus to bond more with him and get some answers. I feel I have a greater connection to Mary.
 

UniqueMixture

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Yeah, I really struggled with this and at about your age as well. My advice would be to take it slow. Try -not- to think of it actively and let your brain do the work in the background. Also, allow yourself a space for spiritual contemplation whether it be mediatation or even just listening to music without any lyrics. Often times, our brain encodes how we feel about very fundamental emotional concepts like God in symbols. So find a place to close your eyes and be calm and just let the symbols play with one another until they find a harmonious way of being with one another. I would also suggest to you that perhaps you can give up your belief in hell without giving up your belief in God. I believe [MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] is Catholic and does not believe in a literal hell (he may correct me if I am wrong). For myself, I am sort of an poly/pantheistic animist I guess. I think of God as the aggregate consciousness between the interaction of subatomic particles, fields, branes, etc while also questioning some of the basic tenets of physics/mathematics like proof by negation (which makes things quite weird indeed). I know that might not make a lot of sense, but it has been the only way I have found of grounding my thought in a more or less scientific worldview while still allowing my own inner consciousness to express itself freely in a way that is real for me. I wish you well and hope you may find the inner peace you seek.

3 more suggestions:

Stay away from "negative" beliefs. This CAN'T be true, this is FALSE, etc etc

Stay away from beliefs that -require- yourself, God, or others to be "evil." Perhaps others are doing the best they can with the resources they have available to them.

Play "let's pretend" and let yourself believe things that make you happy even if they contradict what makes most others happy. However, try to at the same time connect your beliefs to others in a way that makes both yourself and them happy. Best of luck.
 

citizen cane

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I don't really have any input that hasn't been said in the thread already, but nobody's mentioned the song so here it is

 

Mole

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Our religion is our inheritance.

Most of us are given our religion as children and we take it in with our mother's milk. We take it for granted.

But if we live in a liberal democratic society, we can examine our religious inheritance as we grow up.

So I examined my religious inheritance first from an intellectual point of view, and then from an emotional point of view, and finally from a moral point of view.

So I am grateful for being given such a rich religious inheritance - intellectually rich, musically rich, rich in art and sculpture, rich in literature, rich in ritual, and socially rich. And I have slowly, over many years, been able to dig over my inheritance and make it mine own - rejecting some parts and accepting others.
 
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