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  1. #51
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Aside the fact that Phi is beauty of symmetry. In structures it leads to logically sound designs and in paintings it means that there is no deadzones on the canvas and allows the entire painting to be perceived.

    People see such symbolism in Phi that it astonishes me really. Like there is something really special about it. But there isn't. It's all so simple.

    Did the egyptians build the pyramids using Phi because of beauty? Nah, they built it like that because it was built to last and it doesn't require much depth of thinking to know a perfect pyramid will be much much stronger than one that isn't.


    People are idealistic airheads.
    I don't think it's a question of idealism. The structure of the Golden Ratio is that the whole is to the larger as the larger is to the smaller. The fact that this ratio is found in many places in nature means that larger and smaller things are often mirrors of each other. This is an underlying concept in the patterns of reality. Macrocosm and microcosm have similarities along principles. One can apply this to ideas too, that the big picture is to the general is to the general as the general is to the specific, vaguely speaking. Like typology, which is symbology in ideas, we can apply general ideas to specific ones because there are patterns of organization.

    As far as Phi is concerned, I guess you don't understand how to use symbology. It's nothing to do with idealism either, and everything to do with illustrations of patterns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    From my limited understanding of norse mythology, I believe the real Loki sucked at that as well, so the correlation seems fitting. :P
    I don't think typology existed back then...I'm confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You would know all about that wouldn't you, you being an e6 after all. Ironically, I think you share the same enneatype as the OP.


    Well, I don't know my etype, and I don't care, so I can't say whether you're wrong. I don't really believe in it.

  2. #52
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Coincidentally, I've watched a show about the golden ratio the other day and it was so hilarious.

    Just one quote from the show that summerizes it all quite nicely:

    "The golden number appears to be a constant in the universe."

    And it gets much worse than that. But the fact they worship the golden number as some kind of existing deity is quite fun to watch.

    For all you golden ratio lovers it might be worth watching though, others might have a laugh if they can muster up the time. Here's a link.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-20Cs7ewog
    Just because some people take things too far, which happens with everything, doesn't mean there isn't some underlying part of it which is actually true and useful. If you avoid everything that idealists could run away with, you miss out on a lot in life.

    Personally, I think the idea that we already know the nature of things with science, and there's nothing mysterious which is beyond our comprehension is extremely idealistic. You rationalists tend to idealize rationalism and science. Back in the days before technology and laboratories, how do you think people learned things? Largely through examination of patterns and symbols.

    INTP's are supposed to like quantum physics, which is based on little more than speculative guessing based on patterns and ideas. It doesn't have much more grounding than symbology, except that symbology is useful because it's applied to practical things and real life.

  3. #53
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Back in the days before technology and laboratories, how do you think people learned things? Largely through examination of patterns and symbols.
    And look what that has done for us. One race, one species, globally fractured, forming tribalism and fighting wars from ancient times up to this day. Yeah, we learned much from symbolism, like we learned to hate without reason(Unless you believe in symbolism that is, then there is reason.). Our species is poetic justice in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    INTP's are supposed to like quantum physics, which is based on little more than speculative guessing based on patterns and ideas. It doesn't have much more grounding than symbology, except that symbology is useful because it's applied to practical things and real life.
    I'll leave it at my previous comment, I think it applies here as well.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #54
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I'll add this.

    Just because something that is logical is also considered subjectively beautiful, doesn't make it special.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I'll add this.

    Just because something that is logical is also considered subjectively beautiful, doesn't make it special.
    If you think about it, nothing is special.

    If you don't think about it then everything is special.

    Either way 'special' is manufactured and doesn't exist without somebody to appreciate it.

  6. #56
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    If you think about it, nothing is special.

    If you don't think about it then everything is special.

    Either way 'special' is manufactured and doesn't exist without somebody to appreciate it.
    I disagree, there are plenty of special things that fully deserve the brand without question, more often than not if there is mystery involved (For example, how life came to be). The golden ratio is just not one of those things. And it is not just because I subjectively believe it not to be. It is because there really is no mystery when it comes to the golden ratio. One plus one is two is nothing special either for the same reason.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #57
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    If you think about it, nothing is special.

    If you don't think about it then everything is special.

    Either way 'special' is manufactured and doesn't exist without somebody to appreciate it.
    Right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I disagree, there are plenty of special things that fully deserve the brand without question, more often than not if there is mystery involved (For example, how life came to be). The golden ratio is just not one of those things. And it is not just because I subjectively believe it not to be. It is because there really is no mystery when it comes to the golden ratio. One plus one is two is nothing special either for the same reason.
    The mystery is the pattern, and how many things it can apply to, and in what ways. You have to think outside the box. For example, the Fibonacci sequence is in human DNA; patterns can be used as codes to discover more things. The periodic table of the elements contains all kinds of patterns, and they all mean something. The same could be true of the DNA strand. Maybe the sequence could be connected to energy patterns and vibrations, and we could use that for healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    And look what that has done for us. One race, one species, globally fractured, forming tribalism and fighting wars from ancient times up to this day. Yeah, we learned much from symbolism, like we learned to hate without reason(Unless you believe in symbolism that is, then there is reason.). Our species is poetic justice in the making.



    I'll leave it at my previous comment, I think it applies here as well.
    Ability to know truth is constant throughout time. Time is an illusion and is not linear. Knowledge and consciousness are not linear, but cyclical. History had its problems, but we have the same problems now as we did then. Plus many more.

  8. #58
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I disagree, there are plenty of special things that fully deserve the brand without question, more often than not if there is mystery involved (For example, how life came to be). The golden ratio is just not one of those things. And it is not just because I subjectively believe it not to be. It is because there really is no mystery when it comes to the golden ratio. One plus one is two is nothing special either for the same reason.
    Says you. You can't prove special because it comes from a feeling.

    It IS because you subjectively believe it to be since there's nothing objective about it. I could say that 1+1 is special and you can disagree all you want and it doesn't matter because you think what you think and I think what I think.

    It really means nothing though, and this is kind of pointless to discuss.

  9. #59
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy
    The mystery is the pattern, and how many things it can apply to, and in what ways. You have to think outside the box. For example, the Fibonacci sequence is in human DNA; patterns can be used as codes to discover more things. The periodic table of the elements contains all kinds of patterns, and they all mean something. The same could be true of the DNA strand. Maybe the sequence could be connected to energy patterns and vibrations, and we could use that for healing.
    That is science, science goes by rules and principles, rules ans principles form patterns. But you lost me at energy patterns.

    You seem like a harmless and nice person, as are your ideologies. But honestly the way you formulate ideas scares me. Where do you draw the line, where does the symbolism stop and reality kick in. Would you ever conform to symbolism regardless if it victimizes other people, or only conform to it if it is convenient?
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Cant seem to delete double posts on my phone.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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