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  1. #511
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yes we can say that it's true that heap exists as a concept since it obviously does. That doesn't necessarily let you say that it's true that a given x is a heap, because if you do you are saying it definitely is that thing, which is not being vague. This is actually what causes the paradox to work - the fact that a heap can't be treated as a specific quantity means that if you acknowledge anything as being a heap, such as hairs on your head, and you diminish it by one and it is still a heap, you end up with a boundary problem. When does it stop being a heap?


    If we've already established that the term "heap" is subjective, can't we then also understand that the point at which something not longer exists as a heap is subjective. Since "heapness" is really only determined by the user of the vague term. It seems like less of a boundary problem and more of a problem of not recognizing that our language is more generalized than our reality.

  2. #512
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    If we've already established that the term "heap" is subjective, can't we then also understand that the point at which something not longer exists as a heap is subjective. Since "heapness" is really only determined by the user of the vague term. It seems like less of a boundary problem and more of a problem of not recognizing that our language is more generalized than our reality.
    Yes. That's kind of what I'm talking about actually.

    We need to have metacognition and be able to recognize these problems when they come up, and realize when we need to switch to a different 'language' or just accept limitations of our systems.

    You seem to be readily doing this as it is and maybe don't see it as an issue, but this is a pitfall for many - accepting what their given language of choice tells them based on their constructed rules, rather than noticing that it just might have some kind of limitation that means it isn't the end-all-be-all of deciding all things.

  3. #513
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There are many signs of consciousness but those without a prefrontal cortex show none of these signs.

    The fact is you want to imagine a tree is conscious. Well, that's fine.
    By the scientific definition of consciousness, yes. Spirituality conceives of consciousness as a sort of awareness composed of collected energy, which transcends physical boundaries (which are illusions anyway).

  4. #514
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    We already addressed this before. With the women and the apples. The statements "women love apples" and "women hate apples" cannot both be true, but the statement "women have differing feelings on apples" can be true.

    The absolute truth in that case is that electrons are not fixed in space. The statement of an electrons location at a certain time is still true even if it occupies a different location at a different time. Even if it occupied two different locations at the same time there would still be the objective truth that "electrons can exist in multiple locations at a time".

    The truth of love would be that it can be both pleasant and unpleasant depending on the circumstances of ones love.
    True.

  5. #515
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    How does spirituality escape the scope of logic? I don't see spirituality as the realm where things no longer have to make sense. If you assume there are supernatural/metaphysical forces those forces will have a nature and a way of functioning. There will have there own inherent logic based on their way of functioning.
    Valid way of looking at things. I guess I'm looking at things from an Ni perspective, collecting information from intuition and then recognizing patterns and conclusions within it without full conscious examination. Maybe that's not the best description of Ni, but it's my condensed version.

    And emotion and personal experience can be evaluated this way too, along with everything, into an intuitive understanding of things which is independent of logic because it's not a conscious analytical process. It could be, but logic doesn't give the entire picture because it is limited by words and concepts.

  6. #516
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    People aren't dismissing it because it's mystical.
    Some people definitely are. Also I guess my communication style either sucks or doesn't match with theirs or both.

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Honestly, I dismissed it because it's just one more overly simplistic meme that can't begin to encompass the complexities of human relationships, but acts like it's solved the 'big riddle'.

    Also, so many of these things purport to be attributed to some older culture as if it gives it more credence when no proof that it was ever seen that way by them at all is ever given.
    Valid perspective. I don't have proof of how they saw things, but I have studied Native American spirituality and culture. So I could find information about it if I wanted to. Which would be an interesting thread.

  8. #518
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Ok, just to clear this up: I have no value judgments in this thread whatsoever. I like some things a lot, but they in no way need to translate to anyone else. I debate the possible benefits of certain ways of thinking for some people, or the relevance of things, but I have no personal or emotional attachment to my opinions or the outcomes other than I like them when I use them. (<--Which is true for most people. Right?)

  9. #519
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    People are dismissing this because in modern society men and women are equals, and discerning any difference between the two can be near sacrilege =X

  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    People are dismissing this because in modern society men and women are equals, and discerning any difference between the two can be near sacrilege =X
    Thanks for the clarification. I have noticed this.

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