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  1. #381
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    This is a trap isn't it?
    No, I really meant it. I was all like "I think I made Orangey mad. Did I really do that?"

    Then I left it for a bit, but then decide "What if I really just frustrated the hell out of Orangey? I feel kind of bad. I don't want to do that to anybody. Maybe I should apologize to Orangey" so I did.

  2. #382
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @Orangey

    Translation:

    It's impractical to expect people to be absolutely, syntactically correct at all times.

    greenfairy is correct that when someone says "women love apples" they generally mean "some women love apples" or even "in general, women love apples"

    Perhaps you expect that it should imply 'all' - and maybe it should - but rarely do people actually operate in the way you expect them to.

    You may as well expect someone to mean 'this object has a low temperature' when they say something is 'cool'. And even if you do expect that, it doesn't mean anyone is going to, so get used to it.

    I totally understand your point here however the statement "women love apples" was brought up specifically to refer to a situation where there were two conflicting absolute statements.

    It was not the case that some one said "women love apples" when they meant "some women love apples".

    What we are arguing over is not the generally use of language but actual meaning.

    Greenfairy has argued that "women love apples"="some women love apples" in reality and non just as a result or verbal laziness. This is just totally illogical and mindboggling to me. my mind has been boggled.

  3. #383
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Not necessarily, since it's taking a commonly interpreted statement and turning it into a logical one.

    Your whole argument is built around interpreting the original statement "women love apples" differently than greenfairy interpreted it, and have kind of missed the point because of that.

    You're asserting that there indeed exists a convention in formal logic for converting informal statements. I'd like to see the rule that says 'the all is implied' that you didn't just make up on the spot.


    Yes, that much is true.
    If you look at the original context of "women love apples" in post #313 i think there is very little room for misinterpretation.

  4. #384
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @Pseudo

    Ah, ok. I was trying to follow your context into greenfairy's response and got it wrong from your point. I'm glad you said something.

    I can see where the trouble was, now.

  5. #385
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    No, I really meant it. I was all like "I think I made Orangey mad. Did I really do that?"

    Then I left it for a bit, but then decide "What if I really just frustrated the hell out of Orangey? I feel kind of bad. I don't want to do that to anybody. Maybe I should apologize to Orangey" so I did.
    Note: For a T, it's more effective to apologize for specifically the issue that made them mad (i.e., "You were talking about the rules of formal logic, and I twisted your words to discuss something different"), not just say you are sorry for testing people's patience. I am not sure what point the latter serves, as it does not at all address the issue that was frustrating.

    EDIT: Okay, looks like you and Pseudo figured things out together.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #386
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    The original statement was not formal logic. We're going from colloquial to formal. What you're saying applies by assuming that the formal meaning must already be the one that was intended before the conversion - it may not be. Therefore this is hawking over syntax.

    Yes it was. Or it was intended to be. #313

  7. #387
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    @sprinkles

    No problem, I was just frustrated because I had started to build a nice little house for us all in the logosphere ......and the greenfairy came along and said "NO! your house is actually a fish and I believe it has a soul!" we're moving to Fairy World!!!


    Interesting side note logosphere can mean both the logical universe and the interpretation of words' meanings based on language and context. Connections

  8. #388
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    @sprinkles

    No problem, I was just frustrated because I had started to build a nice little house for us all in the logosphere ......and the greenfairy came along and said "NO! your house is actually a fish and I believe it has a soul!" we're moving to Fairy World!!!


    Interesting side note logosphere can mean both the logical universe and the interpretation of words' meanings based on language and context. Connections
    Yes.

    It's also interesting to note that there can be many valued logic as opposed to binary logic, such that things can be true to differing degrees.

    This can apply to things like valves, float switches, and analog gauges where things have a varying degree of trueness. For example you don't want a fuel tank that only notifies you that it's completely empty, and you also don't want one that notifies you as soon as it's slightly less than full. Or you don't want a pump that turns on as soon as it detects a drop of water, and you don't want one that turns off as soon as the level drops.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Umm..yeah.

    Also, @Saturned, any WOT examples contained in this thread do not contribute to the INTP tally, K?
    In the effort of being fair... yes, yes they do.


  10. #390
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yes.

    It's also interesting to note that there can be many valued logic as opposed to binary logic, such that things can be true to differing degrees.

    This can apply to things like valves, float switches, and analog gauges where things have a varying degree of trueness. For example you don't want a fuel tank that only notifies you that it's completely empty, and you also don't want one that notifies you as soon as it's slightly less than full. Or you don't want a pump that turns on as soon as it detects a drop of water, and you don't want one that turns off as soon as the level drops.

    Hmmm but that doesn't mean the truth is multiple things. The fuel gauge for instance is notifying you of a true quantity of gas that is less than full and more than empty. Yes our language refers to it as "empty" when actual it is just low but that doesn't change the truh of he matter.

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