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  1. #281
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Well prove it then, or join the club. Thinking isn't enough when it comes to objective truth. Therefore, if we are to apply rigor, you must not only think or generalize this, you must prove it to be true, otherwise you are leading to bad things and contradicting yourself as well.

    If there's even one case where a generalization leads to a good thing, then your statement is false.

    Correct! I should have said " In my experience generalizations tend to result in bad things". A modification in language that makes a formerly unprovable statement a more accurate description of my thought and lack of definitive knowledge. More nuanced, more true.

  2. #282
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Well, I was using the theory of biological differences to support my philosophical and spiritual thoughts on the matter, which I think make sense in and of themselves. Some people disagree, and that's fine. The philosophy was the point of my thoughts on the matter. I'm going to agree with you that it's a valid viewpoint that gender differences are purely physical. I said my piece and I'm not going to push it.

    But if you want to discuss biological differences, here's a thought: Some systems of thought suggest that people are purely physical beings, that all psychology, thought, emotion, and personality stem from physical phenomena such as hormones, electrical impulses, and survival needs. We are material beings. Some people take the opposite viewpoint and suggest that we are purely spirits inhabiting a physical body. Personally I think the answer is a little of both. So; if you are a materialist, you would have to believe that physical states influence psychological states and behavior. Correct? If true, then physical differences in gender would necessarily influence psychological states and behavior to some extent.

    The question is how much. That I don't know, and is highly individual.
    As far as I can tell, all things arise physically. How else would they?

    For example, if there's a spirit that does things in a non-physical 'mystical' way, how does it even interact with matter? More importantly, why would we even need the spirit? If there's no material connection then it's just as easy for something to come from nothing.

    If God defied physics to make the universe, then while were on the subject of defying physics, then why couldn't the universe also defy physics and make itself?

    Hence, I say all things arise interdependently and physically. If there's a thought, there's a thinker. If there's a concept, somebody encapsulated it. Paganism to me is animism. Spirit is a name for a physical process. Divinity and sacredness is literal uncorrupted harmony.

    The only thing that is mystical are things that we don't completely understand, and there are a lot of them.

  3. #283
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Consider. Humankind are animals/mammals that by sheer accident and the drive for survival, have evolved into mammals that have a higher consciousness. Beyond that, the rest is construct where purpose is what each individual or community makes it. That's the substance of good/evil. It's a matter of abide or not by construct and if your choice is not to abide, there will be human inflicted consequences whether social shunning or punishment.

    Existing past death? Who cares. Once we die, it's all moot.

    The above to me is so freeing, rather than frightening. Free to be who we wish to be when we're willing to pay the price tag that freedom comes with, whether in labour or some other quantifiable or unquantifiable cost.
    I agree with this. Believe it or not.

  4. #284
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Female soulfulness?

    Also, I don't see how something can describe humanity if it is untrue for some humans. It can describe some of humanity, some relationships. I see a great divides between things that are generally correct and absolutely true.
    Nothing is true for all humans, except perhaps death. And Hindus would argue that point as well, as some of their saints are said to be immortal. So nothing is absolutely true.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @Pseudo

    Very few things apply to all people. Even if you redefined every single word it probably still wouldn't apply to all people.

    All we do is find an approximation that we feel is 'good enough'. What level of scrutiny this approximation must entail varies between individuals, so that's yet another thing that doesn't apply to all people.
    Yeah, what sprinkles said.

  5. #285
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yes, that is pretty much it.


    Fair enough.


    Well, I was using the theory of biological differences to support my philosophical and spiritual thoughts on the matter, which I think make sense in and of themselves. Some people disagree, and that's fine. The philosophy was the point of my thoughts on the matter. I'm going to agree with you that it's a valid viewpoint that gender differences are purely physical. I said my piece and I'm not going to push it.

    But if you want to discuss biological differences, here's a thought: Some systems of thought suggest that people are purely physical beings, that all psychology, thought, emotion, and personality stem from physical phenomena such as hormones, electrical impulses, and survival needs. We are material beings. Some people take the opposite viewpoint and suggest that we are purely spirits inhabiting a physical body. Personally I think the answer is a little of both. So; if you are a materialist, you would have to believe that physical states influence psychological states and behavior. Correct? If true, then physical differences in gender would necessarily influence psychological states and behavior to some extent.

    The question is how much. That I don't know, and is highly individual.

    I don't disagree that their are physical differences but I do question the extent to which they shape our personalities. Most for the reasons I stated previously that women all don't function in the same way. You could have two women which have very dissimilar personalities and a man and a women with very similar personalities. For example of these three people who is the outlier: Sarah Palin, Glen beck, Andy Worhol.

    I'm not denying that gender is a factor in shaping a person, I'm just denying that it is the most significant or lone factor.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Wrong.

    Irrational means contradicting rationality. Non-rational means rationality doesn't apply.

    It's like this:

    rationality<---------->irrationality


    non-rational
    I don't speak NF.

    "Non" means "not". Non-rational means not rational. Not rational is irrational.

    You can't re-define things because they don't agree with with your irrational values.

  7. #287
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    False. Truth is truth. Truth is not subjective.

    I think this implies the answer to most questions is more complex and takes a longer, more nuanced answer than we generally give but I think that it is worth it for things to be True. I feel the acceptance of generalizations and stereotypes leads to bad things.


    EDIT: If truth is subjective it becomes meaningless.
    I like sushi. This is true. And it is subjective. And this truth is very meaningful to me.

  8. #288
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    As far as I can tell, all things arise physically. How else would they?

    For example, if there's a spirit that does things in a non-physical 'mystical' way, how does it even interact with matter? More importantly, why would we even need the spirit? If there's no material connection then it's just as easy for something to come from nothing.

    If God defied physics to make the universe, then while were on the subject of defying physics, then why couldn't the universe also defy physics and make itself?

    Hence, I say all things arise interdependently and physically. If there's a thought, there's a thinker. If there's a concept, somebody encapsulated it. Paganism to me is animism. Spirit is a name for a physical process. Divinity and sacredness is literal uncorrupted harmony.

    The only thing that is mystical are things that we don't completely understand, and there are a lot of them.
    I agree with you in the sense that physical experience seems to be the only way we can experience anything, material or spiritual, because we a are physical beings. I agree with you last sentence too.

    But I think they physical realities of our world go beyond our own bodies. So while being female influences my thoughts and actions so does my geographic location, the bodies of others around me ect. Also my body is not the same as every other woman's body. There is extreme genetic variety between women so it still doesn't follow that we would be treated as a homogenous group with a single function, even if we agree that all things arise from the physical.

  9. #289
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    i'm trying stick with my interpretation of the proverb without typing the same expression over and over... i get bored

    then the only thing we should say is that all humans are composed of carbon.
    Right. +1 This applies to all humans. Yay, we have objective absolute Truth!

  10. #290
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I like sushi. This is true. And it is subjective. And this truth is very meaningful to me.
    Uhhh.... It's not subjective that you like sushi. It's objectively true that you like sushi. You can say, "I like sushi," as a fact.

    However, your liking for sushi is subjective, as it is based on your preferences. Just because you like sushi does not mean that sushi is good to everyone. So you can not say, "Sushi is good [to everyone]" as an objective fact.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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