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  1. #271
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @Pseudo

    Very few things apply to all people. Even if you redefined every single word it probably still wouldn't apply to all people.

    All we do is find an approximation that we feel is 'good enough'. What level of scrutiny this approximation must entail varies between individuals, so that's yet another thing that doesn't apply to all people.

    False. Truth is truth. Truth is not subjective.

    I think this implies the answer to most questions is more complex and takes a longer, more nuanced answer than we generally give but I think that it is worth it for things to be True. I feel the acceptance of generalizations and stereotypes leads to bad things.


    EDIT: If truth is subjective it becomes meaningless.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    (Which is why I focus on spirituality, which is non-rational.)
    Non-rational is irrational.

  3. #273
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @Pseudo

    Very few things apply to all people. Even if you redefined every single word it probably still wouldn't apply to all people.

    All we do is find an approximation that we feel is 'good enough'. What level of scrutiny this approximation must entail varies between individuals, so that's yet another thing that doesn't apply to all people.
    Yes, yes, so shit like this which can be treated in a literary (and not scientific, please STFU about that already, people...it's not relevant) way must be judged by how well they speak to human experience. Clearly this particular proverb is not as good as others in that it is not as universally relateable.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #274
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No.
    actually yes.
    but we'll proceed as if that makes sense.
    I am saying that the fundamental human need of people for each other transcends differences of sex/gender.
    the concept you're trying to convey only makes use of the word "sex." gender can, and should be left out.
    I discourage anything targeted with such bias. I encourage everyone to give protection where it is needed, and spiritual/emotional comfort and guidance as well.
    as romantic and utopian as that sounds, it's just not realistic.
    there's a reason such a "bias" exists with such social and geographical breadth. i might not know precisely how those evolved ideals fell into place, but the evidence is clear: each sex has different built-in strengths. naturally, to varying degrees and with plenty of exception.

    the best teams succeed when everyone performs their role to specification. we succeed as a species under the same conditions.
    we fail when everyone trampling over one another trying to attain the same goal like two baseball players cracking their heads against the other's chasing the same fly-ball, under some misguided fear of bias.

    i guess you're trying to fight for the underdog here. the proverb does doesn't give a lot of credit to a Joan or Arc or Shakespeare, right?
    except that since we're all gifted with mainly the same talents, the most important of which being the ability to accomplish many things in a lifetime, we can see a woman-warrior who further nurtures her protective husband's already strong, poetic soul.
    we fukin won boys

  5. #275
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    False. Truth is truth. Truth is not subjective.

    I think this implies the answer to most questions is more complex and takes a longer, more nuances answer than we generally give but I think that it is worth it for things to be True. I feel the acceptance of generalizations and stereotypes leads to bad things.
    Well prove it then, or join the club. Thinking isn't enough when it comes to objective truth. Therefore, if we are to apply rigor, you must not only think or generalize this, you must prove it to be true, otherwise you are leading to bad things and contradicting yourself as well.

    If there's even one case where a generalization leads to a good thing, then your statement is false.

  6. #276
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Pray tell...
    no.
    I agree that it's not an insult to anyone. It's merely silliness. And I think your insistence on "sex" instead of "gender" goes against @greenfairy's qualification that we're talking about energies, not genitalia.
    i apologize for not having familiarized myself with this thread in full.
    we fukin won boys

  7. #277
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    What you are saying is that the proverb should actually read:

    The role of the feminine attributes of an individuals personality is to balance out the masculine aspects of the personality and allow the individual to have a healthy existance.
    The role of masculine attributes of the personality are to allow for the vulnerability to exist by guarding it from the harshness of the world.
    Yes, that is pretty much it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I feel like that is what you want the proverb to mean despite the fact that it doesn't say that. It dosen't say it literally or through metaphor. It only functions this way if you redefine man and woman so that the terms don't actually refer to the sex of the individuals. Perhaps this is a problem of translation. If you take it as it is written it doesn't apply to all people.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I'm still confused as to why you are uninterested in talking about whether or not what you are saying is actually true. You keep refusing to give any kind of examples which is frustrating because it kind of kills the thread. I guess from my perspective I always want to base my belief in whether or not to holds up to rigorous argument. It's almost like you are shielding your opinions from debate so as not to lose any confidence in them. If you truly believe that are legitimate then to be you should share them so we can have an actual discussion.
    Well, I was using the theory of biological differences to support my philosophical and spiritual thoughts on the matter, which I think make sense in and of themselves. Some people disagree, and that's fine. The philosophy was the point of my thoughts on the matter. I'm going to agree with you that it's a valid viewpoint that gender differences are purely physical. I said my piece and I'm not going to push it.

    But if you want to discuss biological differences, here's a thought: Some systems of thought suggest that people are purely physical beings, that all psychology, thought, emotion, and personality stem from physical phenomena such as hormones, electrical impulses, and survival needs. We are material beings. Some people take the opposite viewpoint and suggest that we are purely spirits inhabiting a physical body. Personally I think the answer is a little of both. So; if you are a materialist, you would have to believe that physical states influence psychological states and behavior. Correct? If true, then physical differences in gender would necessarily influence psychological states and behavior to some extent.

    The question is how much. That I don't know, and is highly individual.

  8. #278
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Female soulfulness?
    i'm trying stick with my interpretation of the proverb without typing the same expression over and over... i get bored

    Also, I don't see how something can describe humanity if it is untrue for some humans. It can describe some of humanity, some relationships. I see a great divides between things that are generally correct and absolutely true.
    then the only thing we should say is that all humans are composed of carbon.
    we fukin won boys

  9. #279
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Non-rational is irrational.
    Wrong.

    Irrational means contradicting rationality. Non-rational means rationality doesn't apply.

    It's like this:

    rationality<---------->irrationality


    non-rational

  10. #280
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    actually yes.
    but we'll proceed as if that makes sense.the concept you're trying to convey only makes use of the word "sex." gender can, and should be left out.
    as romantic and utopian as that sounds, it's just not realistic.
    there's a reason such a "bias" exists with such social and geographical breadth. i might not know precisely how those evolved ideals fell into place, but the evidence is clear: each sex has different built-in strengths. naturally, to varying degrees and with plenty of exception.

    the best teams succeed when everyone performs their role to specification. we succeed as a species under the same conditions.
    we fail when everyone trampling over one another trying to attain the same goal like two baseball players cracking their heads against the other's chasing the same fly-ball, under some misguided fear of bias.

    i guess you're trying to fight for the underdog here. the proverb does doesn't give a lot of credit to a Joan or Arc or Shakespeare, right?
    except that since we're all gifted with mainly the same talents, the most important of which being the ability to accomplish many things in a lifetime, we can see a woman-warrior who further nurtures her protective husband's already strong, poetic soul.
    I think what @Coriolis was actually saying is not that men and women in relationships fulfill the same roles, but that the role they fulfill within the relationship is not determined by gender.

    If the man provides the nurturing and the women provides security they will avoid the "head cracking" of your baseball metaphor.

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