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  1. #251
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I think the idea of balance is overrated. It can come across as being a jack of all trades and master of none. I prefer being a master of those things that fulfull me and suit my nature and abilities, while developing sufficient capacity with the rest to function satisfactorily in society. People will always be better at some things than others, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they understand their strengths and weaknesses, and can address the weaknesses adequately.
    Which is fine since that's your choice. But you're not trying to sell your choice to others with vague hand flutterings, as a gender construct highest calling.

    I am a pagan, and an NT. My comments on that topic will certainly involve less emotion and more reasoning, but are necessarily values based. The increase in humanity's scientific knowledge has pulled more and more questions out of the realm of mysticism into the realm of science. One of my major gripes with religions is when they attempt to explain questions about which we have developed a scientific, empirical understanding. There are some questions which I doubt will ever be answered by science, however, and these properly fall to mysticism, spirituality, etc.
    I have to question this. If you're aware that science has pulled the vast majority of questions out of the mystical realm, aren't you choosing to believe something mystical that in the near or distant future, will be proved or disproved by science? In other words, belief or faith in mysticism was a proven sham? Is it really that important to have answers, when these answers aren't sourced in any proof, that they're pure faith?

    How is this different than believing in God?

    Btw, I'm a unbeliever, if you haven't figured this out.

  2. #252
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Just what are these unique qualities of men and women? I guarantee for every one, there are many of the opposite sex who exhibit it. I see people as sacred and beautiful, and individual, without the need to pigeonhole them into gender or other boxes, but then I'm just a garden variety NT.


    Why do we need to define roles? Better just to let each person develop their individual gifts and seek personal fulfillment.


    You may call it sexist. I call it gender bias. IME that means that one gender is being treated differently from the other without rational basis. Yes, you should complain about assumption that men cannot find the source on their own, or with help from other men; the assumptions are equivalent. If men don't really need this help from women, and women don't really need protection from men, then the proverb is basically saying that the highest calling of both men and women is to do something unnecessary. Sad.
    I think there are differences. Evidence can be found to support both points of view. So you have a valid point, and so do I. But I don't really care enough to debate it. Carry on. I'm glad to see an NT pagan on the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I am a pagan, and an NT. My comments on that topic will certainly involve less emotion and more reasoning, but are necessarily values based. The increase in humanity's scientific knowledge has pulled more and more questions out of the realm of mysticism into the realm of science. One of my major gripes with religions is when they attempt to explain questions about which we have developed a scientific, empirical understanding. There are some questions which I doubt will ever be answered by science, however, and these properly fall to mysticism, spirituality, etc.
    Yes, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If you view the quote in the OP as just one perspective among many, the problem largely goes away. Each of us can view gender complementarity (or individual complementarity) in the way that makes most sense for us. We can learn from discussion of alternate viewpoints without having to embrace them.
    Yes, this is how I view things. It's a message framed in a way that benefits certain types of people and not others.

  3. #253
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    WOT?
    Yeah, post #30.

  4. #254
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    What does "WOT" mean?

  5. #255
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Which is fine since that's your choice. But you're not trying to sell your choice to others with vague hand flutterings, as a gender construct highest calling.

    I have to question this. If you're aware that science has pulled the vast majority of questions out of the mystical realm, aren't you choosing to believe something mystical that in the near or distant future, will be proved or disproved by science? In other words, belief or faith in mysticism was a proven sham? Is it really that important to have answers, when these answers aren't sourced in any proof, that they're pure faith?

    How is this different than believing in God?

    Btw, I'm a unbeliever, if you haven't figured this out.
    I'm an atheist and a polytheist at the same time. Chew on that. Does your head hurt yet?

    Which I have explained in a post if anyone's curious.

  6. #256
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I'm an atheist and a polytheist at the same time. Chew on that. Does your head hurt yet?

    Which I have explained in a post if anyone's curious.
    Yeah, I can see the NT in you. NOT.

  7. #257
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    What does "WOT" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I mean what does WOT mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Abbrev. for Wall Of Text
    My thoughts exactly. I thought it was common forum speak.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    My thoughts exactly. I thought it was common forum speak.
    Beats me.

  9. #259
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You may call it sexist. I call it gender bias.
    no one called it sexist. but there was an actual implication that you suspected sexism.
    IME that means that one gender is being treated differently from the other without rational basis.
    i will always laugh when people think that the concepts of social and rational have any relevance to one another.
    Yes, you should complain about assumption that men cannot find the source on their own, or with help from other men; the assumptions are equivalent.
    but yet you ignored this side of the argument completely and went straight ahead with the feminist agenda. if you're a female, well that could be a self interest thing. i suspect it has more to do with brainwashing by peer pressure.
    If men don't really need this help from women, and women don't really need protection from men, then the proverb is basically saying that the highest calling of both men and women is to do something unnecessary. Sad.
    the values invoked by the proverb are seen consistently in every culture i've ever heard of. it could be that those values were simply carried down through every generation since the pangea-mother culture the rest of us must have spawned from, but more likely, we have biological motivations/incentives for acting that way.
    when you say that these things are necessarily not the highest calling [and i sense that you discourage those behaviors suggested in the proverb], you say equally that men and women have no need for one another at all.

    the truth is, even if protectiveness of females is not something we see in males in their individual relationships, or soulfulness of females in the same, it exists on the macro scale all the same.
    it's not an insult to either "gender" [i'm pretty sure you mean sex]: it's just humanity.
    the only insult is spun by a perspective which holds that women under protection by men are weak.
    we fukin won boys

  10. #260
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    I have to question this. If you're aware that science has pulled the vast majority of questions out of the mystical realm, aren't you choosing to believe something mystical that in the near or distant future, will be proved or disproved by science? In other words, belief or faith in mysticism was a proven sham? Is it really that important to have answers, when these answers aren't sourced in any proof, that they're pure faith?

    How is this different than believing in God?

    Btw, I'm a unbeliever, if you haven't figured this out.
    It is no different than believing in God. My personal beliefs involve God and Goddess, to some degree mirroring the masculine/feminine complementarity we have been discussing here, but I see it as informative rather than normative. In other words, they are archetypes that demonstrate the duality of human attributes, without requiring any 1-to-1 mapping in actual humans (could be the P and Q sets of traits I referenced above). Seeing them as masculine/feminine, male/female makes for some pretty poetry, but that's it.

    There are some questions I don't think science will ever answer, because I see the answers as inherently subjective. These include: why are we here? what is our purpose in life? how should we relate to each other and the world around us? what is right/wrong, or good/evil, and do these distinctions even make sense? is there a god/deity/higher power, and if so, what is its nature? does any part of us continue after bodily death, and if so, what happens to it? This last might eventually be explained by science, but my belief for now is that the explanation will not be complete. In short, science attempts to understand objective reality, while spirituality examines subjective purposes. Much of the science/religion debate comes from one trying to operate in the sphere of the other.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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