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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Someone had mentioned "signal-to-noise," and I think that's an apt analogy.

    Long-winded talks or posts aren't necessarily bad in and of themselves. In fact, I've found that I'm terrible at elevator pitches and 5-minute presentations, because I feel as though I can't fully explain an idea or present what I'd regard as necessary context.

    I actually fare much better with 30 minute to an hour and a half talks. But I still have to make them interesting, organized, and relevant.
    Exactly. To answer ygolo, no one is saying you have to turn War And Peace into a Cliffs Notes version. But who would have made it through War and Peace if it was a long wall of text on a scroll with no paragraphs or chapters? In addition, acceptable length is determined by depth. If you have a long post that takes a long time to elucidate, fine. But the argument here is about people who write forever to basically say "I don't like that".
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I was referring to long texts that are just from other sources like a 4 page news article without the individual's commentary. I value long post's that the individual THEMSELVES took the time to type. It shows thoughtfulness, deliberation, and ability to reflect. When a person is coming from that sort of space I feel their thoughts are more prone to genuine honesty and I value them more.
    Oh. OK. That is different.

    Sometimes, I quote things from articles that I find interesting (especially news and science related), and provide the link. In many of these situations, I hold off on giving my own opinion till others have responded. I've noticed that I have an unusual high rate of ending threads or not getting responses when I state my opinion.

    If nobody responds, I may be disappointed because I found things interesting, and was hoping to discuss things.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #33
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Oh. OK. That is different.

    Sometimes, I quote things from articles that I find interesting (especially news and science related), and provide the link. In many of these situations, I hold off on giving my own opinion till others have responded. I've noticed that I have an unusual high rate of ending threads or not getting responses when I state my opinion.

    If nobody responds, I may be disappointed because I found things interesting, and was hoping to discuss things.
    I think in some cases you bring up "touchy" issues and because you are treating them seriously it brings up fears in other people. It's not that people don't like or don't wish to engage with you about what you're talking about, it is that it can be painful to integrate thoughts and feelings into ourselves that deal with basic emotions that we have. Often people use abstract topics as a way of dealing with issues of identity. For example some of the conservatives on this site strike me as very good people who wish to create a genuine dialogue with liberals in order to create an integrated view of politics. However the problem is that the way people fundamentally feel about politics is not about policy notes and so forth, it is about -relationships-. How do you relate to this person/group? What does this person group symbolize? What does this person/group symbolize about YOURSELF? If their worldview is correct, how does that make you FEEL? etc. This happens not just with politics, but also ideas about class, race, sex, religion, etc etc.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Someone had mentioned "signal-to-noise," and I think that's an apt analogy.

    Long-winded talks or posts aren't necessarily bad in and of themselves. In fact, I've found that I'm terrible at elevator pitches and 5-minute presentations, because I feel as though I can't fully explain an idea or present what I'd regard as necessary context.

    I actually fare much better with 30 minute to an hour and a half talks. But I still have to make them interesting, organized, and relevant.
    I agree that there are places and situations where brevity is important. But I think how long or short something is can vary based on the topic and the forum being used.

    We have had plenty of long, involved, and interesting (to me at least) discussions in the philosophy sub-forum in the past. This does seem less likely in 2012 than in 2008 for instance. It is just an impression of mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Exactly. To answer ygolo, no one is saying you have to turn War And Peace into a Cliffs Notes version. But who would have made it through War and Peace if it was a long wall of text on a scroll with no paragraphs or chapters? In addition, acceptable length is determined by depth. If you have a long post that takes a long time to elucidate, fine. But the argument here is about people who write forever to basically say "I don't like that".
    I believe the distinction between signal and nose is largely subjective. War and Peace, for instance, I found to be incredibly boring.

    But the point about paragraphs, I agree with.

    My hypothesis is that it has to do with the mechanics of reading online versus in a book. Laptops and computer screens in general are much wider than pages of books. To accommodate for this, there needs to be more space between paragraphs, otherwise the eyes end up rereading the same things. This can be frustrating even if the reader doesn't notice it happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I think in some cases you bring up "touchy" issues and because you are treating them seriously it brings up fears in other people. It's not that people don't like or don't wish to engage with you about what you're talking about, it is that it can be painful to integrate thoughts and feelings into ourselves that deal with basic emotions that we have. Often people use abstract topics as a way of dealing with issues of identity. For example some of the conservatives on this site strike me as very good people who wish to create a genuine dialogue with liberals in order to create an integrated view of politics. However the problem is that the way people fundamentally feel about politics is not about policy notes and so forth, it is about -relationships-. How do you relate to this person/group? What does this person group symbolize? What does this person/group symbolize about YOURSELF? If their worldview is correct, how does that make you FEEL? etc. This happens not just with politics, but also ideas about class, race, sex, religion, etc etc.
    No talk about religion or politics in polite company? that sort of thing?

    I would love if people could just be honest without having to put their relationships at risk.

    Why does it have to be like--"You don't believe the Earth is flat? Begone." Why can't it be, "You don't believe the Earth is flat? Why?"

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #35
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I agree that there are places and situations where brevity is important. But I think how long or short something is can vary based on the topic and the forum being used.

    We have had plenty of long, involved, and interesting (to me at least) discussions in the philosophy sub-forum in the past. This does seem less likely in 2012 than in 2008 for instance. It is just an impression of mine.t



    I believe the distinction between signal and nose is largely subjective. War and Peace, for instance, I found to be incredibly boring.

    But the point about paragraphs, I agree with.

    My hypothesis is that it has to do with the mechanics of reading online versus in a book. Laptops and computer screens in general are much wider than pages of books. To accommodate for this, there needs to be more space between paragraphs, otherwise the eyes end up rereading the same things. This can be frustrating even if the reader doesn't notice it happening.



    No talk about religion or politics in polite company? that sort of thing?

    I would love if people could just be honest without having to put their relationships at risk.

    Why does it have to be like--"You don't believe the Earth is flat? Begone." Why can't it be, "You don't believe the Earth is flat? Why?"

    People can't get over themselves
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    People can't get over themselves
    What do you mean?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    o.O have you seen some of the walls of text crafted by the INTPs on this site?

    It's..... rather alarming.
    There may be exceptions, but I haven't noticed a pattern of verbosity amongst INTPs. Perhaps that's just because I am more at ease with INTP communication and so the reward/effort ratio is in my favour. Unlike some long-winded NF posts - full of ellipses and half-digested thoughts upon we are forced to impose some kind of structure/fill-in-the-blanks. :P

    Ultimately, one should cut one's cloth appropriately. Some topics merit lengthy OPs/ responses. Most do not (in this medium which, after all, is designed to facilitate a conversational tone.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #38
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    I love tl;dr, i fucking hate a wall 'o text. How hard is it to make paragraphs people?!!!!!!

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  9. #39
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text this is a wall of text

    this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text

    this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text

    this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't

    a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text this isn't a wall of text

    any questions?
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #40
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    @prplchknz , you illustrate my point exactly. <3

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


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