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  1. #11
    Senior Member Kurt.Is.God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I believe in gravity and the solar system and infiniteness of space. But I don't get a deep wondrous emotion when I think about them. I feel like you definition of emotion is "holding an opinion or judging the value of something (I assume this because you've said MBTI thinking is really an emotion. I don't really understand that.)

    Use this as an hypotheical example. I love my parents and I am aware of all the things they do for me but there is an emotional distance and being around them doesn't elicit an emotional response even though I do value them extremely.
    Your first example works--you can also believe in the doctrines of whatever belief system you subscribe to without feeling "spiritual" feelings. Spirituality is defined by Wikipedia as "belief in an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality; an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being; or the 'deepest values and meanings by which people live.'" A spiritual worldview would likely be all of these things, even if you don't get the feelings of awe associated with it. But I don't think there's really no emotional component at all. If you really believed your religion, I find it hard to believe that the belief won't spill over into feelings in your life. You'd react to death differently, for example, if you really did believe there was an afterlife.

    In your second example, how do you know you value your parents? Something like value is strictly about feeling. You can't just KNOW that you value something unless it evokes some emotional response of some kind (though it doesn't necessarily have to be a "normal" emotional response, like Victor said).

    Also, I experience feelings of awe at the sublime through psychedelic drugs and art.

  2. #12
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Though I would classify myself as a believer, I have a very difficult time being "spiritual". Feeling any kind of transcendental emotions or connection to the universe. I feel very disconnected when people talk about there souls or there spirit being affected by something. My mind accepts it, but I feel like the emotional component is missing. Other people seem to have the opposite problem, some people have it all going on and other don't accept any of it.

    Obviously a certain answer would be that there is no emotional feeling because there is nothing really divine, but I don't really want to get into a debate of the existence of supernatural forces.
    I have the opposite problem. My mind doesnt accept it, but I do *feel* it. When I am not pre-occupied elsewhere, touching another living being, be it plant, rock, animal or human, sparks a connection and tingles through my body, as such. My spirituality entails that living beings are connected to each other and that the Earth is..in a way, alive. It certainly *feels* alive to me. I have trouble wrapping my brain around my experiences though as I was raised in an atheist home. When I try to follow specific exercises to do meditation for instance, I get bored coz Im actually *trying* actively. Meanwhile, I dont dare to drive a car anymore as I..trance, while driving. I dont see what is happening in front of me as it all becomes background noise. I actually slip into a trance when Im bored (and driving a car is truly boring to me), to entertain myself. I walk into doorways, cupboards, you name it, for the same reason. I call it not being present in this world
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  3. #13
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @Amargith
    Sounds quite similar to me. Except for the meditation bit (I'm actually quite good at it) and cars/running into stuff. I'm actually a good driver, it does stress me though.

    I usually don't bump into things walking around unless it's dark or something has been moved recently. I do get hilarious cases though where somebody moves a chair or something and I no longer know what to do with myself. This happened the other day at dinner with my family when my dad decided to watch TV with his dinner - it left an empty chair and I was really confused about where to sit so I stood there for about 3 minutes, dumbfounded LOL

  4. #14
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Are you telling us you don't have a normal emotional response?
    I'm telling you about my emotional response. I don't know about "normal"

  5. #15
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt.Is.God View Post
    Your first example works--you can also believe in the doctrines of whatever belief system you subscribe to without feeling "spiritual" feelings. Spirituality is defined by Wikipedia as "belief in an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality; an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being; or the 'deepest values and meanings by which people live.'" A spiritual worldview would likely be all of these things, even if you don't get the feelings of awe associated with it. But I don't think there's really no emotional component at all. If you really believed your religion, I find it hard to believe that the belief won't spill over into feelings in your life. You'd react to death differently, for example, if you really did believe there was an afterlife.

    In your second example, how do you know you value your parents? Something like value is strictly about feeling. You can't just KNOW that you value something unless it evokes some emotional response of some kind (though it doesn't necessarily have to be a "normal" emotional response, like Victor said).

    Also, I experience feelings of awe at the sublime through psychedelic drugs and art.
    Someone could value there parents as former caregivers and be grateful with out experiencing emotional closeness.

    I never meant to imply that I don't have emotions at all. I guess I can't describe it well. An example some people get sort of swept away during worship services, or at art museums or in nature, into an emotional experience this sort of thing has happened to me once or twice in my life.


    But enough about me

  6. #16
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I have the opposite problem. My mind doesnt accept it, but I do *feel* it. When I am not pre-occupied elsewhere, touching another living being, be it plant, rock, animal or human, sparks a connection and tingles through my body, as such. My spirituality entails that living beings are connected to each other and that the Earth is..in a way, alive. It certainly *feels* alive to me. I have trouble wrapping my brain around my experiences though as I was raised in an atheist home. When I try to follow specific exercises to do meditation for instance, I get bored coz Im actually *trying* actively. Meanwhile, I dont dare to drive a car anymore as I..trance, while driving. I dont see what is happening in front of me as it all becomes background noise. I actually slip into a trance when Im bored (and driving a car is truly boring to me), to entertain myself. I walk into doorways, cupboards, you name it, for the same reason. I call it not being present in this world
    That's what I'm getting at. That sort of present sensation of connectedness and something above the concrete world.

  7. #17
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I believe in gravity and the solar system and infiniteness of space. But I don't get a deep wondrous emotion when I think about them. I feel like you definition of emotion is "holding an opinion or judging the value of something (I assume this because you've said MBTI thinking is really an emotion. I don't really understand that.)

    Use this as an hypotheical example. I love my parents and I am aware of all the things they do for me but there is an emotional distance and being around them doesn't elicit an emotional response even though I do value them extremely.
    By any chance because it's empirical? I guess you don't have to believe in spirituality, and that's cool. Some people experience spirituality and believe it, and mostly non-Ti users I'd say.

    I guess I am to some extent but my views have changed over time.
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  8. #18
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @Amargith
    Sounds quite similar to me. Except for the meditation bit (I'm actually quite good at it) and cars/running into stuff. I'm actually a good driver, it does stress me though.

    I usually don't bump into things walking around unless it's dark or something has been moved recently. I do get hilarious cases though where somebody moves a chair or something and I no longer know what to do with myself. This happened the other day at dinner with my family when my dad decided to watch TV with his dinner - it left an empty chair and I was really confused about where to sit so I stood there for about 3 minutes, dumbfounded LOL
    Hehe, you use your Si to navigate, I guess

    The problem is, that I spent years being a passenger in the car, so I zoned out. It has become *such* a habit that, when I tried to learn how to drive, it became dangerous. I tried twice. It didnt help that my parents forced me to learn how to drive a car and Im notorious for rebelling when forced. When I went to do my exam for the second time round, I was truly relieved: someone was sitting next to me to hit the brakes if I fucked up (and I did, twice, once on the way to the exam center, once on the test), either I would get my license or I wouldnt, and I could finally decide for myself if and when I would drive a car, instead of being forced. Ive never been so relaxed for an exam..and yet, I somehow managed to almost drive into someone. The DMV guy said he had never seen anything like it in 19 years. I just...could not care less about driving a car...so I escape, the way I have done for years: into my dreams, into another world really. The scary part is I dont even realise Im doing it, so it isnt like I can turn it off

    As for meditation...once I realized that Id been doing this thing that I was trying to achieve for years without trying, I learned how to do it on command..just relax and let your mind go blank, or let it muse on the object of fascination. But when actively chasing it, I was too antsy for results, ya know? And as the state was *so* natural to me, it didnt occur to me that that was what I was to achieve through meditation exercises.

    i remember when we first got the Wii bord, back in the day. There is a meditation exercise with a candle on there. My intj, ever competitive, had unlocked all the exercises and was trying to get top score on all of them. The meditation one involved sitting still on the board for I believe 1 min or like 90 seconds. He failed miserably within 10 seconds every time and got frustrated. I laughed, causing him to go: you try it then! I shrugged, and was intrigued enough to do so. He got his perfect score on his game record. It just wasnt him that set it. I just tuned out the world, focused on the virtual candle and sat still for the required time, and that was that. Of course, that caused him to wanna figure out the mechanics of what Id just done and recreate it himself. I dont recall if he did ever figure it out

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    That's what I'm getting at. That sort of present sensation of connectedness and something above the concrete world.
    Yeah well it has its downsides, believe me
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minutegovt View Post
    By any chance because it's empirical? I guess you don't have to believe in spirituality, and that's cool. Some people experience spirituality and believe it, and mostly non-Ti users I'd say.

    I guess I am to some extent but my views have changed over time.
    I do beilive in spirituality I just thin I don't experience it some other people do and I would like to.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I believe ten people compelled to define spirituality would define ten different concepts.

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