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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan is Real

    I ran across a guy on some other forum who thinks Castaneda's Don Juan sorcery books are reports of true events.

    It takes all kinds, I guess.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I wouldn't doubt he he had Indian guides. He would've needed them to acquire the mescaline back then. I barely recall the details of the books I read, but most of the crazy stuff wasn't reported to be real exactly. They were his peyote trips. I think he saw something that shook him up.. But I assumed he made a conscious choice in believing they were actually taking him to the "spirit world". I don't know anything about sorcery books. I only read the early stuff.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I wouldn't doubt he he had Indian guides. He would've needed them to acquire the mescaline back then. I barely recall the details of the books I read, but most of the crazy stuff wasn't reported to be real exactly. They were his peyote trips. I think he saw something that shook him up.. But I assumed he made a conscious choice in believing they were actually taking him to the "spirit world". I don't know anything about sorcery books. I only read the early stuff.
    http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...astaneda-24168
    I can't seem to copy/paste from this site. Start with the paragraph beginning "One of Castaneda's colleagues..." if you want to just cut to the chase.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1563273/bio
    "In 1973, TIME Magazine found that Castaneda had lied about his background, such as his military service, his father's occupation, his age and his nation of birth. Critics also uncovered numerous instances of plagiarism, since don Juan's supposed quotations can be sourced to dozens of other writers and philosophers. To this day, there is literary debate whether Castaneda's books should be classified as fiction or nonfiction."

    This is the same year that Carlos disappeared from public view. Those weren't the only questions brought up by Time. There was also the question as to whether or not don Juan's teachings actually reflected Yaqui mysticism and philosophy. The answer was "no."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #5
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Interesting. Well, I stopped reading them after he spoke to the peyote god. haha. I've never done peyote specifically, but I never tripped that bad.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Interesting. Well, I stopped reading them after he spoke to the peyote god. haha. I've never done peyote specifically, but I never tripped that bad.
    He was a great story-teller. There's just too many internal inconsistencies to be believable. I don't even remember the peyote god.

    When I was about 16 I thought that becoming a Man of Knowledge would be great - except that one needs to be specially selected by a brujo. At that point, I didn't really see the point to his writing the books in the first place.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1563273/bio
    There was also the question as to whether or not don Juan's teachings actually reflected Yaqui mysticism and philosophy. The answer was "no."
    Yeah, I heard about that, also about the extent to which indigenous communities were plagued by hippies and druggies wanting to participate in what they'd read about.

    I guess that the things he wrote about could have happened and the persons could have existed but I dont actually consider that the important point, why and what difference does it make are for me the important points.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I heard about that, also about the extent to which indigenous communities were plagued by hippies and druggies wanting to participate in what they'd read about.

    I guess that the things he wrote about could have happened and the persons could have existed but I dont actually consider that the important point, why and what difference does it make are for me the important points.
    If don Juan is considered to be a real person, and his teachings are valid, then this validated the way a lot of people felt back in the hippie era. Drugs are, therefore, not a meaningless escape, the experiences are no mere illusion. What you see when high is just as real - perhaps more real - than when sober. Being high does not mean "dropping out," but instead, one is "dropping in" to visit another, more relevant dimension.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    If don Juan is considered to be a real person, and his teachings are valid, then this validated the way a lot of people felt back in the hippie era. Drugs are, therefore, not a meaningless escape, the experiences are no mere illusion. What you see when high is just as real - perhaps more real - then when sober. Being high does not mean "dropping out," but instead, one is "dropping in" to visit another, more relevant dimension.
    That's a lot of conclusions contingent upon don Juan having existed which I dont think are necessarily so, Osama really existed, it doesnt make his message about the Koran, Islam or the world is any the more valid than otherwise would be the case.

  10. #10
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    If don Juan is considered to be a real person, and his teachings are valid, then this validated the way a lot of people felt back in the hippie era. Drugs are, therefore, not a meaningless escape, the experiences are no mere illusion. What you see when high is just as real - perhaps more real - then when sober. Being high does not mean "dropping out," but instead, one is "dropping in" to visit another, more relevant dimension.
    We don't want to go around affirming the consequent, though.

    It's possible to be right but for all the wrong reasons. Even if this guy was fake and wrong, that doesn't mean that the basic premise that you put forth above was fake and wrong.

    It's kinda like justifying the tooth fairy to prove that the quarter under your pillow is real. The quarter being real isn't really the problem, it's there. Making convoluted stories to prove something doesn't help.

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