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View Poll Results: Is Time Real or Illusory?

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  • Illusory

    7 38.89%
  • Real

    11 61.11%
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  1. #41
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Interesting article.

    The thing about quanta is that a lot of stuff that we perceive just simply falls apart at that level. Interestingly in that article it even says:


    One big problem between general relativity and quantum theory is that large bodies - large in the sense of watermelons or people - simply don't act the same way.

    Gently placing your hand on a table is a marked difference from slamming down on it quickly, and slamming on it quickly is a marked difference from pressing on it very hard.

    If this were only attributed to mass then you wouldn't be able to apply more pressure than your body weight, but you can apply more pressure than your weight. So maybe space has something to do with it? Well, with space and mass, even if you move somehow with a fixed velocity that magically works without time, you still wouldn't be able to apply more pressure than your mass.

    However, if you have velocity, you can gain mass. Hence, just standing up won't break your legs because it's only the mass of your body but if you jump off a building you have more mass and therefore hit with more force, and are liable to break something. Where does this extra mass come from? It comes from velocity. How can we factor velocity, without time?
    At less than relativistic speeds, mass doesn't change enough to make a difference. You're talking about momentum.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #42
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    At less than relativistic speeds, mass doesn't change enough to make a difference. You're talking about momentum.
    Momentum is the product of velocity and mass.

    Momentum is effectively kinetic mass at every speed. You'll encounter this in ballistics for example, which typically measures things that travel far slower than relativistic speeds.

    Edit: and really I'm talking about kinetic energy, not momentum.
    The momentum of an object is proportional to the object's velocity - if you double its velocity, you double its momentum. The kinetic energy of an object is proportional to the square of the object's velocity - if you double its velocity, you quadruple its kinetic energy. This has important consequences...

  3. #43
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    time is a construct, it doesn't actually exist, we invented to be able to keep up with important events and to understand our place in the universe better just a theory of mine
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #44
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    time is a construct, it doesn't actually exist, we invented to be able to keep up with important events and to understand our place in the universe better just a theory of mine
    Maybe. Is taste a construct?

    What would cheese taste like to a fish?

  5. #45
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    time is an measurement of movement speed(how long does it take something to get from point a to b) and also can be used as an measure of distance when you measure of speed which something moving at constant speed, like photons. its an concept that has been made up, but nevertheless its true that it takes time to move in space and that the rate which your(non quantum) parts(like Na/K making action potential travel in axons, your DNA being packed/unpacked for reading, your arm, whole you etc) move can be measured in time.

    dunno which one to vote, i guess its not real, but its only an illusion if you have flawed view on what time is
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  6. #46
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Isnt time just the construct of self aware creatures trying to create conscious order in a universe that doesn't appear to have any?

    Like mathematics it is a system of organisation that helps us measure and understand things around us. Whether or not the understanding is correct to a non-human perception is impossible to tell at this point....in time, (ho ho).

    Of course if we can influence the 'reality' that appears to be around us with our understanding of it, as we do through our various sciences and the way we harness physical reality, one could say that is proof of a correct understanding, but then again there is nothing outside of us that can confirm this right now; afterall who is to say that making and building constructs using materials in our own biosphere is purposefully meant to happen?

    I suppose it might depend upon an inherency of time, regardless of if we give it a name or not.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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  7. #47
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    time is an measurement of movement speed(how long does it take something to get from point a to b) and also can be used as an measure of distance when you measure of speed which something moving at constant speed, like photons. its an concept that has been made up, but nevertheless its true that it takes time to move in space and that the rate which your(non quantum) parts(like Na/K making action potential travel in axons, your DNA being packed/unpacked for reading, your arm, whole you etc) move can be measured in time.

    dunno which one to vote, i guess its not real, but its only an illusion if you have flawed view on what time is
    And yet everybody, at a very young age, and including animals, have a sense of the passage of time without any concept of it whatsoever.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #48
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    And yet everybody, at a very young age, and including animals, have a sense of the passage of time without any concept of it whatsoever.
    That's because it's like a difference between some stuff and some other stuff.

    A difference by itself can't exist without something to be between, sure. It also might change or even be eliminated through perspective.

    The thing is though, is that the difference is really there. If time disappears on the level of quanta, what is it that actually disappeared? If it were nothing that disappeared, you wouldn't notice that it's gone missing.

  9. #49
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    And yet everybody, at a very young age, and including animals, have a sense of the passage of time without any concept of it whatsoever.
    but sense of time is an subjective psychological phenomena, not an definition of what time is.

    this sense of time arises from few factors:

    first of all there is the sense of present, ability to form memories and differentiate them from the present. also some bit more developed animals are able to predict consequences of things, meaning that they have some grasp of the future aswell. sense of time is really nothing but the ability to differentiate these 3 factors, but that tells us nothing about what time is, except that there i past, present(which while we process it, is actually in the past already) and future.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    how many days have passed since this thread started?
    Oh, its
    You
    ....

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