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View Poll Results: Is Time Real or Illusory?

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  • Illusory

    7 38.89%
  • Real

    11 61.11%
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  1. #31

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    It depends on what exactly we are denoting with the word "time". In addition, I am not sure if the perception we have of things progressing from moment to moment according to the laws of thermodynamics is an illusion or real.

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  2. #32
    Member ChihuahuaRevolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @ChihuahuaRevolt

    There's also allegedly a phenomenon where people quite regularly see things that aren't actually there but they appear to be so normal that they don't even know it.

    An example would be walking down the street and seeing a normal trash can but it isn't actually there. It's not unusual, or out of place, so we just accept that we see it. Supposedly everyone does this all the time with little things that don't matter.

    I have no idea how valid this actually is, but I find it interesting and amusing to consider.
    Me too! Crazy how the mind works.....I wonder what happens when people "see" ghost or shadowy figures and such. I wonder if its the brain playing tricks on them or if there is actually something out there.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    In a vacuum with absolutely no objects there would be no apparent time. But we also would not be there to observe this lack of apparent time.

    Is time really a thing completely unto itself? I say no. It's a metric, like size, or velocity. If there's a vacuum of nothing then there's also no apparent size or velocity either, because relative things depend on stuff being there.
    So time is a metric, which I take to mean it's a concept. Then in what manner do you experience time? Not through a concept, I hope.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  4. #34
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    So time is a metric, which I take to mean it's a concept. Then in what manner do you experience time? Not through a concept, I hope.
    Probably the same manner we experience something that goes fast, or a tree that is tall. Discrete measurements are an arbitrary metric but the thing that they measure is not necessarily the same deal.

    The way I'm talking about time, as in what a clock shows, is kind of like a ruler. Nothing really is divided up conveniently into discrete meters but discrete meters can be used to measure something in a meaningful way. Similarly, time is not divided up conveniently into discrete seconds but we have a metric to measure it in a meaningful way.

    We seem to know that there's a 'space' between one event and another almost dimensionally, and that there's pretty much always something in between.

    Just about everything can be interpreted as an illusion given the right context.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    It depends on what exactly we are denoting with the word "time". In addition, I am not sure if the perception we have of things progressing from moment to moment according to the laws of thermodynamics is an illusion or real.
    Well that's the question, isn't it? But if you don't recognize having an intuition of time, then I think you're just thinking too hard about this. Because time is something we take for granted all our lives without the necessity of bringing in laws of thermodynamics.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Probably the same manner we experience something that goes fast, or a tree that is tall. Discrete measurements are an arbitrary metric but the thing that they measure is not necessarily the same deal.

    The way I'm talking about time, as in what a clock shows, is kind of like a ruler. Nothing really is divided up conveniently into discrete meters but discrete meters can be used to measure something in a meaningful way. Similarly, time is not divided up conveniently into discrete seconds but we have a metric to measure it in a meaningful way.

    We seem to know that there's a 'space' between one event and another almost dimensionally, and that there's pretty much always something in between.

    Just about everything can be interpreted as an illusion given the right context.
    According to some physics I've read this year - I've since lost the source - time really is divided up into discrete units. Bits of reality move past your perception like the frames in a movie, giving the illusion of reality. Only they move so fast that there is no possibility of perceiving time as discrete units.

    I searched around and found this page:

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Does-...st-61530.shtml
    "Ferenc Krausz in his lab at the Max Planck Institute of Quantum Optics in Garching, Germany, has managed to do this by using ultraviolet laser pulses to detect the absurdly brief quantum leaps of electrons within atoms, an event lasting roughly 100 attoseconds (100 quintillionths of a second). Like a second in 300 million years.

    But even so, on the Planck scale, attoseconds would be like eons. The scale would define a region where distances and intervals are so short that the concepts of time and space start to disappear."
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    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Probably the same manner we experience something that goes fast, or a tree that is tall. Discrete measurements are an arbitrary metric but the thing that they measure is not necessarily the same deal.

    The way I'm talking about time, as in what a clock shows, is kind of like a ruler. Nothing really is divided up conveniently into discrete meters but discrete meters can be used to measure something in a meaningful way. Similarly, time is not divided up conveniently into discrete seconds but we have a metric to measure it in a meaningful way.

    We seem to know that there's a 'space' between one event and another almost dimensionally, and that there's pretty much always something in between.

    Just about everything can be interpreted as an illusion given the right context.
    According to some physics I've read this year - I've since lost the source - time really is divided up into discrete units. Bits of reality move past your perception like the frames in a movie, giving the illusion of reality. Only they move so fast that there is no possibility of perceiving time as discrete units.

    I searched around and found this page:

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Does-...st-61530.shtml
    "Ferenc Krausz in his lab at the Max Planck Institute of Quantum Optics in Garching, Germany, has managed to do this by using ultraviolet laser pulses to detect the absurdly brief quantum leaps of electrons within atoms, an event lasting roughly 100 attoseconds (100 quintillionths of a second). Like a second in 300 million years.

    But even so, on the Planck scale, attoseconds would be like eons. The scale would define a region where distances and intervals are so short that the concepts of time and space start to disappear."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    According to some physics I've read this year - I've since lost the source - time really is divided up into discrete units. Bits of reality move past your perception like the frames in a movie, giving the illusion of reality. Only they move so fast that there is no possibility of perceiving time as discrete units.

    I searched around and found this page:

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Does-...st-61530.shtml
    "Ferenc Krausz in his lab at the Max Planck Institute of Quantum Optics in Garching, Germany, has managed to do this by using ultraviolet laser pulses to detect the absurdly brief quantum leaps of electrons within atoms, an event lasting roughly 100 attoseconds (100 quintillionths of a second). Like a second in 300 million years.

    But even so, on the Planck scale, attoseconds would be like eons. The scale would define a region where distances and intervals are so short that the concepts of time and space start to disappear."
    Interesting article.

    The thing about quanta is that a lot of stuff that we perceive just simply falls apart at that level. Interestingly in that article it even says:
    A peculiar trait of the waves is that they can exist in an infinite number in the same location. Quanta could be piled together in just one dimensionless point.

    "Space and time in some sense melt in this picture. There is no space anymore. There are just quanta kind of living on top of one another without being immersed in a space," said Rovelli.
    One big problem between general relativity and quantum theory is that large bodies - large in the sense of watermelons or people - simply don't act the same way.

    Gently placing your hand on a table is a marked difference from slamming down on it quickly, and slamming on it quickly is a marked difference from pressing on it very hard.

    If this were only attributed to mass then you wouldn't be able to apply more pressure than your body weight, but you can apply more pressure than your weight. So maybe space has something to do with it? Well, with space and mass, even if you move somehow with a fixed velocity that magically works without time, you still wouldn't be able to apply more pressure than your mass.

    However, if you have velocity, you can gain mass. Hence, just standing up won't break your legs because it's only the mass of your body but if you jump off a building you have more mass and therefore hit with more force, and are liable to break something. Where does this extra mass come from? It comes from velocity. How can we factor velocity, without time?

  9. #39
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    I'll argue for real with the understanding time is the recognition of change.

    Change is real. Time is too.

    But it comes down to a more basic question...how do you seperate what's real from what's illusionary? Solipsism?

    Unless you become a sensist. Even what is sensed as real but it isn't physical is acceptable as real. It opens up the door for happiness being real, love. A nice thought...

  10. #40
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    The concept of time is perhaps one of the most interesting subjects of all.

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