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  1. #21
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I forgot to add that I don't see how that makes Rand evil anyway, even if she held that kind of belief.
    Zero degrees of empathy?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Hitler > Kant > Rand in evilness!

    You is in Uber's bedroom, stealing his wall paper!

  3. #23
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    In all seriousness, that Hitler guy, never a damn smile. How can you get that popular and even be popular with Orwell without cracking a smile.

  4. #24
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    In all seriousness, that Hitler guy, never a damn smile. How can you get that popular and even be popular with Orwell without cracking a smile.
    I've seen him smiling a few times. It's actually not a bad smile.

    Anyway, to continue with my thought from earlier, I think trying to prescribe a philosophy for morality is like trying to prescribe an exact science for music. If it were that simple to reduce things to a particular set of statements then there would be no accounting for taste. We'd just say 'a robot is fine, too!'

    But there are more to these things than the sum of their apparent parts - especially when the apparent parts aren't necessarily all the parts.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    I've seen him smiling a few times. It's actually not a bad smile.

    Anyway, to continue with my thought from earlier, I think trying to prescribe a philosophy for morality is like trying to prescribe an exact science for music. If it were that simple to reduce things to a particular set of statements then there would be no accounting for taste. We'd just say 'a robot is fine, too!'

    But there are more to these things than the sum of their apparent parts - especially when the apparent parts aren't necessarily all the parts.
    Here Erich Fromm actually did this, in his book Man For Himself.

    Its based upon the psychological basis for ethics, summed up in Love Others As Thyself, its solid, although in addition to this, the golden rule, I'd suggest there needs to be the golden mean too, things in moderation aint bad.

  6. #26
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Here Erich Fromm actually did this, in his book Man For Himself.

    Its based upon the psychological basis for ethics, summed up in Love Others As Thyself, its solid, although in addition to this, the golden rule, I'd suggest there needs to be the golden mean too, things in moderation aint bad.
    Indeed. And in fact I'd say that prescriptions should be so general as this. Mainly because setting up a system intended to realize morality does not instill morality. Someone who follows the rules doesn't necessarily become a moral person.

    For a moral person, rules can be a tool to help maintain rightness and accountability. For an immoral person, rules tell them the location of all the obstacles for gaming the system.

  7. #27
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Indeed. And in fact I'd say that prescriptions should be so general as this. Mainly because setting up a system intended to realize morality does not instill morality. Someone who follows the rules doesn't necessarily become a moral person.

    For a moral person, rules can be a tool to help maintain rightness and accountability. For an immoral person, rules tell them the location of all the obstacles for gaming the system.
    Good point. Moral rules, on the other hand, are not only mishandled based on such a dichotomy. An otherwise moral person may perform an immoral act, particularly if under pressure from another source, if there is no specific prohibition on that act. That person may also immorally fail to perform a moral duty to another, if the act constituting the performance of that duty is proscribed by moral rules. Furthermore, both the permissibility of the first act and the impermissibility of the second act may constitute a coherent moral reasoning, and may be justified outside specific contexts.

    Kant is appealing in that he makes a sound argument for the immorality of acts that interfere with another's capability to engage their own moral reasoning.

  8. #28
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    I'm a socialist.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Good point. Moral rules, on the other hand, are not only mishandled based on such a dichotomy. An otherwise moral person may perform an immoral act, particularly if under pressure from another source, if there is no specific prohibition on that act. That person may also immorally fail to perform a moral duty to another, if the act constituting the performance of that duty is proscribed by moral rules. Furthermore, both the permissibility of the first act and the impermissibility of the second act may constitute a coherent moral reasoning, and may be justified outside specific contexts.

    Kant is appealing in that he makes a sound argument for the immorality of acts that interfere with another's capability to engage their own moral reasoning.
    Yeah I think Kant had some good ideas within their own context. However it seems that he attempted to boil things down to fundamentally rational agents.

    He says 'I ought never to act except in such a way that I could also will that my maxim should become a universal law'. Seems like a good thing. His philosophy though (and Rand's as well) seems entirely riddled with 'the law of the instrument' a.k.a. Maslow's Hammer: "I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

    Or in other words, their philosophies arise from the values that they already have, such as happiness or the necessity of rationality. In a sense they beg the question. Rationality in Kant's sense for example revolves around rationality in the sense of making a reasoned and optimal choice, which requires the formulation of many background assumptions - something which almost nobody actually does that I know of.

  10. #30
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    I liked Kant, didn't think he was evil.
    Rand, I've never read.

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