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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    That is very condescending. Perhaps they have faith because they know something you don't.
    Condescending and true. This is how people get sucked into cults.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Turtledove's Avatar
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    :facepalmed: I don't even like watching televangelists for this simple reason--money grabbing morons that perform false miracles...except T.D. Jakes. I like T.D. Jakes. They embarrass me and my own faith.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Human beings do develop the same, regardless of diversity and unique traits like those obviously associated with ethnicity and language, there are universal traits which underpin human endevour and performance, the greater part of which includes, and for a long time was exclusively, religious. To just decide that you're going to dump that or go without is, to me, pretty stupid and likely to only result in, when sufficient time has past, a swing back, probably further, in the other direction.

    Its not feelings based, I think there's a perfectly rational, thinking basis to that, it was rational to begin with even if you think there has been a divorce between religion and reason, as a lot of exclusive and exclusionary rationalist people maintain. As long as they can.
    I'm not talking about religion being feeling based. I'm saying you're method to convince people is. You're trying to appeal to some connection to humanity. Not everyone cares. Not as a way to make any life changing decisions at least.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm not talking about religion being feeling based. I'm saying you're method to convince people is. You're trying to appeal to some connection to humanity. Not everyone cares.
    No, its not about a connection with humanity, its about realising what your needs are. I'm strongly grounded in Jungian psychology here and I dont even believe you necessarily have to be a believer or anything to accept these Jungian insights.

    Its on a par with Fitness is Good For Your Heart. Is that feeling based? A connection with humanity?

  5. #25
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its on a par with Fitness is Good For Your Heart.
    What is meant by fitness? Formal/planned cardio exercises? Because you can be fit without even trying to make a big deal about it. Simply moving around every day does the trick. Not eating greased up shit helps. Indirect, informal fitness. Taking a walk in the park. Rather than explicitly saying you're "exercising".

    The same goes for spiritual "needs". People, if they really need it, are filling that need somehow. Granted, there are some truly lost people just like there are terribly unfit people, but religion and exercise aren't necessarily the solution. This is where I'd differ with you particularly. You might want to prescribe a specific set of circumstances to "keep in fit". I wouldn't.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Religion - The ole' skycake dodge.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w"]-[/YOUTUBE]
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  7. #27
    Senior Member Wolfie's Avatar
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    I had a lot of experience with evangelism when I was younger. My best friend through my childhood was a homeschooled evangelical christian. My mom always let me figure things out for myself, so she let me go to church with her when I wanted to. I was curious and went sometimes, but I almost immediately saw too many flaws in their rationale. I would ask questions that would fluster them. We agreed to disagree, but she would still harass me on the issue from time to time, because she didn't want to see me in hell. Our friendship fell apart when we got older because I began to understand her viewpoints were not just nonsensical, they were harmful to others, because of how she chose to lord it over everyone.

    Anyhow, in response to the OP's question I would say that I do not think it is necessarily "insanity" but I do think it requires a fair it of close-mindedness to subscribe to. Most of the people I've met who are evangelical were raised that way and trained to think like that. The older ones or "born again" ones tend to be a bit on the crazy side, though.

    People are afraid and I don't blame them. Religion and spirituality, even when illogical, can be the only thing that takes away pain and fear for some people. It just doesn't do anything for me and I don't believe they should push their faith.

    Incidentally...

    ( . )( . )

  8. #28
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    I went to one of these charlatan spectacles in 1981 when I was 5. The preacher's name was Ernest Angley and it was in Atlanta. I always wondered later if it was filmed for TV because he used to be a popular TV evangelist back then.

    All of these big time TV evangelists are into this to fleece the flock. The TV evangelists almost always use the health,wealth, and prosperity preaching style to fleece the sheeple of offerings.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Turtledove's Avatar
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    For some odd reason...I can't help but feel a little insulted by some of these posts. I mean I'm Pentecostal and maybe I'm not all that brilliant nor very intelligent in answering people's questions, but I am very logical in reasoning compared to many of the ESFXs in my church. I don't witness to people or do all that door knocking or whatever because of the exact reasons of discouragment that are in these posts. I don't believe in being pushy with other people or whatever. I absolutely hate rejection. Do I believe in the OP post on youtube? No! Do I do that snake holding garbage they do up in the Kentucky area? No! Have I done the "irrational" stuff? Yes. I mean, come on guys! There is some crazy stuff that God told people to do in the Bible. Do I believe there are crazy people who have said "God said to me...?" Yes and no. The thing is it all boils down to faith and really....I wish everyone would stop criticizing us. Heck, I wish this part of the forum never existed or at least people be a bit more polite in their opinions about people's religious experiences, but I know that's unrealistic expectation from anyone.
    Save Thundercats 2011 petition. Because we do what we can. HO!!!:
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  10. #30
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledove View Post
    Heck, I wish this part of the forum never existed or at least people be a bit more polite in their opinions about people's religious experiences, but I know that's unrealistic expectation from anyone.
    It is unrealistic. I'm glad you said that and know that.

    If it makes anything better, you don't need my (or anyone's) approval or understanding anyways. If you think of it like that, you'll be less insulted. I don't want to step on your toes in a personal way, but I'd still continue to criticize Pentecostalism's ideas, abstracted from whatever it is in your life. The only person I'm truly concerned about in all of this criticism is me. What I found my grounding in (or not).

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