User Tag List

View Poll Results: Is the source or the argument more important to discerning the truth?

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • The source is paramount.

    1 2.78%
  • The source is a bit more important than the argument.

    2 5.56%
  • The source and the argument are equally important.

    10 27.78%
  • The argument is more important than the source.

    14 38.89%
  • The argument is paramount.

    9 25.00%
First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 96

  1. #51
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    For me the argument is paramount.

    It is for that same reason I consider many of the wisdoms written about by the many religions on this planet and add them as my own. Without sharing belief in the religion.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #52
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    If only logos matters then you will always evaluate the logos and disregard the other two. If you evaluate the other two negatively, then you are still evaluating them.
    Yes of course, but that was not what I was evaluating. I just find it sad that the people in power have to assume the role of the pop media in order to act as such.

  3. #53
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Yes of course, but that was not what I was evaluating. I just find it sad that the people in power have to assume the role of the pop media in order to act as such.
    Yeah, they do that because it works. Because unfortunately, most people simply cannot switch off emotional response entirely - in fact it's often considered weird or detrimental if one can do that. The Spock is well loved in theory, but not connected with in practice.

    The same goes with charisma. Most people can't switch off innate attractions which go beyond higher levels of reasoning.

  4. #54
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    The content is most important, but the source can sometimes be relevant to context or to understand the nature of the argument.

    Some historic figure who has thought deeply enough about a topic to have generated the basis for an argument frequently has more ideas about it that are relevant. If they later reverse their opinion, for example, it is useful to know why they've changed their mind.

  5. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Most people can't switch off innate attractions which go beyond higher levels of reasoning.
    That's a good example of the sinking boat we're all sitting in.

    As long as the orchestra plays on the borderline panicking people will remain as that, borderline panicking.

  6. #56
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    That's a good example of the sinking boat we're all sitting in.

    As long as the orchestra plays on the borderline panicking people will remain as that, borderline panicking.
    Yeah. I wonder what would happen if we stripped out ethos and pathos from selecting political candidates. You wouldn't get to look at their credibility, you wouldn't even get to hear their voice or see their face. All you would get are facts that are entirely consistent and true. First of all I think very few people would run in that case. Secondly, I wouldn't be surprised if we vote for someone and it turns out that they are a genius teenager, or a robot, or something else that would never be elected if we weren't only going by logos.

  7. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yeah. I wonder what would happen if we stripped out ethos and pathos from selecting political candidates. You wouldn't get to look at their credibility, you wouldn't even get to hear their voice or see their face. All you would get are facts that are entirely consistent and true. First of all I think very few people would run in that case. Secondly, I wouldn't be surprised if we vote for someone and it turns out that they are a genius teenager, or a robot, or something else that would never be elected if we weren't only going by logos.
    Exactly, It's a wonderful thought, turn that wooden wheel a couple of clicks forward. Having all cards on the table before an election. Now that's democracy in the true sense of the word.

    It's perfect because the corruption of which I speak is the collective manifestation our race. Pluck away a couple of key ingredients in the wheel of what makes us humans tick and we're bound for progress.

  8. #58
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    For me the argument is paramount.

    It is for that same reason I consider many of the wisdoms written about by the many religions on this planet and add them as my own. Without sharing belief in the religion.
    Same.

  9. #59
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yeah. Problem is that any argument can be sound on its surface with presumed truths.

    Such as, if I were to argue that ducks which lay golden eggs would impact the value of gold, I'd probably be right - assuming that there actually are ducks that lay golden eggs.

    It's very easy to presume the 'duck' in someone else's argument if you don't have experience, which makes the argument appear to be truthful but in actuality it may not be, because of something in the premise is missed that doesn't actually apply to the real world.
    On the other hand, if you're ever to come to a conclusion, you have to draw the line somewhere, give the unknown the benefit of the doubt, and determine what you're willing to risk in dismissing a statement as false or accepting it as true.

  10. #60
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    2,968

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post


    On the other hand, if you're ever to come to a conclusion, you have to draw the line somewhere, give the unknown the benefit of the doubt, and determine what you're willing to risk in dismissing a statement as false or accepting it as true.
    Yup, it's a bit of a dilemma.

    If we're just going to accept a conclusion then there's really no need to look at the argument because at best it ends up being a semantic formality. It's rather trivial to make a good argument - argument being a linguistic structure of propositions. What really matters for the truth of the conclusion is the truth of the propositions, and less so the way they mesh together, because anyone who is clever can put them together.

    So when you give the unknown the benefit of the doubt, you give the actual tough part of the argument - the truth of the propositions - the benefit of the doubt, and the argument itself is almost just a formality.

Similar Threads

  1. [ISTJ] Could the ISTJ be considered a Rational personality?
    By Delta223 in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 03-05-2013, 06:27 PM
  2. The Argument Of Rain
    By Liason in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 06-02-2010, 09:07 PM
  3. Australia is considering the approval of female genital mutilation
    By Lex Talionis in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: 05-30-2010, 08:30 PM
  4. 'The Bible is no longer considered part of the conversation'
    By Sniffles in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 172
    Last Post: 04-17-2009, 08:36 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO