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View Poll Results: Is the source or the argument more important to discerning the truth?

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36. You may not vote on this poll
  • The source is paramount.

    1 2.78%
  • The source is a bit more important than the argument.

    2 5.56%
  • The source and the argument are equally important.

    10 27.78%
  • The argument is more important than the source.

    14 38.89%
  • The argument is paramount.

    9 25.00%
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Results 41 to 50 of 96

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Ethos, pathos, and logos, people. The tripartite principles of argumentation.
    If you want to be a politician, otherwise not so much.

  2. #42
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @Elfboy
    Ah yes, source checking. Citing credible information. Boon and bane, that is.
    Argument structure is independent but without vetting sources, it is useless. Yet, eventually you have to take somebody's word for it because sources often come in a chain where we end up checking many levels of sources.
    Like if someone cites their data as coming from Bob Bobingston' Bobber experiment in 1983, you've got nothing new unless you also check Bob Bobingston's experiment, so you go check that and see that Bob Bobingston cites 10 other sources which all hinge around his experiment, at which point you have a mess on your hands because if all 10 of his sources have 10 of their own sources you end up with a geometric progression which is always 'fun'.
    I think the difference between me and a lot of people is that being right for me is more of a process. my goal is to do what makes sense to me, continually gather new information (either from experience, consulting experts or a little bit of research), adjust my perspective and keep doing/thinking what is the best with the information I have at the time. my ENTJ is very different from me in this regard in that he likes to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING before he starts and has a much stronger preference for deduction than induction.
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  3. #43
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    If you want to be a politician, otherwise not so much.
    If you want to have a conclusion, otherwise not so much.

    If we don't want conclusions, why argue? Social contact? I can think of better ways to make social contact.

  4. #44
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    If you want to be a politician, otherwise not so much.
    Wrong. They form a part of any argument that is not mathematical. To think otherwise is to leave one's self open to deception.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    If you want to have a conclusion, otherwise not so much.
    Nop you see. Cult leaders as many politicians, tend to skim on their logos. Well, they don't, until they get an awkward question while on the stand. Before such an event they are more than happy to use logos as well. The dirty whore of an issue in this subject is that the mob don't really care that much about the facts. One have to admire and weep over how eloquent our hierarchy is established. The ones that sound convincing and bow down to pat babies on their head tend to get the vote.

    CHANGE MAVERICK CHANGE MAVERICK CHANGE MAVERICK

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    If we don't want conclusions, why argue? Social contact? I can think of better ways to make social contact.
    Yeah, you misunderstood everything that I previously stated. Impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Wrong. They form a part of any argument that is not mathematical. To think otherwise is to leave one's self open to deception.
    I'm curious to what made you jump at that so quickly. You see, in this spectrum there are no sides. You do have your imaginative castle pretty much locked down with the motion of your hand, grtz.

  6. #46
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    Equally important.

  7. #47
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    I'm curious to what made you jump at that so quickly. You see, in this spectrum there are no sides. You do have your imaginative castle pretty much locked down with the motion of your hand, grtz.
    You on sum drugs, girl?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You on sum drugs, girl?
    Trendy.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Trendy.
    Wendy...bendy...vivendi...
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #50
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Nop you see. Cult leaders as many politicians, tend to skim on their logos. Well, they don't, until they get an awkward question while on the stand. Before such an event they are more than happy to use logos as well. The dirty whore of an issue in this subject is that the mob don't really care that much about the facts. One have to admire and weep over how eloquent our hierarchy is established. The ones that sound convincing and bow down to pat babies on their head tend to get the vote.
    Yes this is true. It still means that all three are important, even if only to know when to disregard certain ones.

    When you're 'othering' in this way you are looking at the sources. If it is true that source is irrelevant (and I argue that it isn't in practice) then you always have to evaluate every argument that comes out of them regardless of their behaviors and past history. If only logos matters then you will always evaluate the logos and disregard the other two. If you evaluate the other two negatively, then you are still evaluating them.

    Yeah, you misunderstood everything that I previously stated. Impressive.
    I understood quite well what you said. I just didn't quite agree with it.

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