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  1. #1
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    Default Brain Vs. The Mind

    We know it's in our brain because we don't think out of our butt.




    I believe it was Rene Descartes who first realised what we take for granted today; and that is... I exist.

    We know, somehow, that our mind is in our brain and our brain is in our head...
    So what trouble Descartes I guess was, was the brain the organ for the mind, and what is reality. He deduced that, we're here, and even if there is something saying that we're here, even that, is a form of existence, so if you think you exist, then you are.

    What if... I, ilikeitlikethat wonder, but, what if... He had a point, and the brain wasn't the mind but just a tool for the mind, then what if, we can live outside our bodies, what is the mind? It seems to be the one thing, that truely is you; your being here; otherwise, you'd just be a mindless thing.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Clutter.

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    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    i tried to obe and live the rest of my life as a astral projecting musician. life is pretty grim when you cant be an astronaut, so i thought id drop out and jam with the aliens. i am currently obeing now
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    Gee, I have to agree with @Nicodemus . Even though I see it's been stated already, I don't see any logical point that your text could make. Pointless will be my remarks, as well, but it seems I couldn't help dropping a line. Or more.

    We know, somehow, that our mind is in our brain and our brain is in our head...
    The phrase above is utterly useless and simply "doesn't sound right", especially since you included the word "somehow", which adds absolutely nothing to the main idea. "The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do." —Thomas Jefferson. Your piece of reasoning can only be deemed as superfluous.

    I believe it was Rene Descartes who first realised what we take for granted today; and that is... I exist.
    Theories concerning existence have been developed by every major philosophical system that has been around. They all offered theories regarding reality, as well. I believe Descartes is better known as having correlated thought with existence, hence "Cogito, ergo sum". On a similar note, it's not the only thing we take for granted today.

    What if... I, ilikeitlikethat wonder, but, what if... He had a point, and the brain wasn't the mind but just a tool for the mind, then what if, we can live outside our bodies, what is the mind? It seems to be the one thing, that truely is you; your being here; otherwise, you'd just be a mindless thing.
    I'll have to bring my skepticism around and ask for proof that the brain is not the mind. Oh, there's none, that's why the "what if..." question. If there's none, you may consider the mind in a similar way many religions consider the soul. So you're modifying this idea by replacing the world "soul" with "mind". I've yet to be convinced about how the body can be separated from either our mind or soul. I could further pledge for the lack of differences between "soul" and "mind" in this context. You could not consider the mind as purely rational, since emotions are also strictly related to the brain and neurotransmitters, so if the brain is simply a tool for the mind, it's a tool for both the rational and emotional component. Which, imho, pretty much fits the Christian idea of a soul, idea that doesn't appeal to me at the very least.

    Oh, and the statement with which you have begun your argumentation is logically fallacious, as well. I'm an admirer of a more eloquent style in such pieces of text. You could say "We know it's in our right leg because we don't think out of our butt." and the arguments, in your case, would be the same.
    So...yep, clutter.

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    Another more interesting frame of thought...what if we had multiple minds. When my elbow is hit right it jumps. Is that not a simple mind of its own. Only focused on one thing? We would never know because even though its within "us"..."body" its seperate from our brain and our brain is self because its contained within itself. What if emotions was not part of the brain...yes thoughts are a part of emotions, but does thought actually affect its processing or is it nothing more then an input that must be processed just as we can analyze our feelings into thoughts. How many selfs does a single person have?
    Im out, its been fun

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    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Umm... you mean the mind is in the energy we emit?

    Hard to understand the OP, but I think because of what little we know about the brain, it is a good possibility that it is complicated enough to tell our consciousness that we are here and we exist and we're not just a big pile of condensed molecules, (and all the other things that make us seem "complicated" as humans/ or animals).

    Edit: Have you ever had depersonalization or out of body experience during a trauma or something? That's kind of what the OP makes me think of. Or like when people die and come back to life and claim that they watched themselves die.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Another more interesting frame of thought...what if we had multiple minds. When my elbow is hit right it jumps. Is that not a simple mind of its own. Only focused on one thing? We would never know because even though its within "us"..."body" its seperate from our brain and our brain is self because its contained within itself. What if emotions was not part of the brain...yes thoughts are a part of emotions, but does thought actually affect its processing or is it nothing more then an input that must be processed just as we can analyze our feelings into thoughts. How many selfs does a single person have?
    The idea of having multiple selves is something that can easily develop into an interesting discussion or heated debate. It engages the mind and that's enough to consider it a valuable subject. And so is consciousness as a general notion (or only particular aspects of it, as there'd be much to say on this subject).

    However, stretch reflexes (since that's what the elbow part is about) are pure science. Why would anyone attribute something that's already been explained long time ago to "a mind of its own"? The concept of multiple selves does have potential, an elbow having "a mind of its own" isn't much, though.

    Quite interesting that you are a Thinker, since you clearly see emotions as a "primary component" and thoughts as a secondary. Or is that only valid in the case of thoughts being a component of emotions (as you seem to have considered them), as opposed to general thoughts, which you could see as...equal and parallel to emotions?

    Also, out of body experiences are caused by changes within the brain, which change our perception. If the body was actually separated from the mind, these changes would actually turn us to the default state, while our brain as it is stops us from seeing the reality as it is. Certainly not my point of view, by the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon Corax View Post
    The idea of having multiple selves is something that can easily develop into an interesting discussion or heated debate. It engages the mind and that's enough to consider it a valuable subject. And so is consciousness as a general notion (or only particular aspects of it, as there'd be much to say on this subject).

    However, stretch reflexes (since that's what the elbow part is about) are pure science. Why would anyone attribute something that's already been explained long time ago to "a mind of its own"? The concept of multiple selves does have potential, an elbow having "a mind of its own" isn't much, though.

    Quite interesting that you are a Thinker, since you clearly see emotions as a "primary component" and thoughts as a secondary. Or is that only valid in the case of thoughts being a component of emotions (as you seem to have considered them), as opposed to general thoughts, which you could see as...equal and parallel to emotions?

    Also, out of body experiences are caused by changes within the brain, which change our perception. If the body was actually separated from the mind, these changes would actually turn us to the default state, while our brain as it is stops us from seeing the reality as it is. Certainly not my point of view, by the way.
    My elbow example was at the most basic...it has an input...you tap it in the right spot...something says oh crap(hence processing)...and it makes your arm move.

    I dont see either emotions/thought as primary or secondary, its dependent on the person, situation, life experiences, etc. that determines what each person has as primary/secondary. I actually see it all intertwined as opposed to completely seperate entities, but operating seperately as well.


    edit: self is at the most basic level "The Thing" self can be one cell, it can be the body, it can be a group of people. Maybe thats to complicated for people to wrap there mind around as "self" is to much tied to a person as opposed to something that processes.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #9
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Hardware vs Software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Hardware vs Software.
    Someone has to program the hardware to do what we want
    Im out, its been fun

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