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  1. #61
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Protestantism was never wiped out by Catholicism. It's still around today. And the Orthodox to my knowledge have not yet reconciled with the Bishop of Rome.
    I'm not talking about Protestantism. I'm talking about before the Catholic Church was even fully established.

    The only thing laughable here are your responses in this thread.
    And I'm not the one who is calling Jesus's teachings foolish. It's ok though. I understand that this is how you choose to treat those you deem as heretics. Feel free to look down upon me.


    I find it highly ironic you talk about prayer and reason, and yet the next minute knee-jerk the Church. Especially since it was the Catholic Church that long taught the compatibility between faith and reason, especially through the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas.
    I find organized religion to be deplorable.

    Perhaps when you develop the maturity to stop knee-jerking the Christian tradition will you finally develop the ability to actually understand it.
    I think you have quite adequately demonstrated your version of Christianity with your ad hominems. I've limited my judgement to Christianity and the church, but you have chosen to level your judgement squarely on me. Thankfully we don't live a few hundred years ago, where I would have been burned on the stake by your church for voicing my beliefs. But I suppose that is just another part of proud Christian tradition that can be pushed aside because of all the "good" Christianity has done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I'm not talking about Protestantism. I'm talking about before the Catholic Church was even fully established.
    Well the Catholic Church was established by Christ when appointed Peter(the first Pope) as the rock upon the his church would be built. And historical evidence for the Church can be dated to the 1st century AD as well.

    And I'm not the one who is calling Jesus's teachings foolish.
    This kind of sophistry will not get you anywhere.

    It's ok though. I understand that this is how you choose to treat those you deem as heretics.
    I actually get along with people of various different persuations and beliefs. I do not impose my faith on anybody; nor look down upon the faith of others either.

    I follow the example of Thomas Merton, who once declared:
    "If I affirm myself as a Catholic merely by denying all that is Muslim, Jewish, Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, etc., in the end I will find that there is not much left for me to affirm as a Catholic: and certainly no breath of the Spirit with which to affirm it."
    Nevertheless, I do not tolerate those who disrespect my spiritual tradition.

    I find organized religion to be deplorable.
    That's understandable on many levels. Nevertheless, don't allow that to cloud your better judgement.

    I don't care for much about Protestantism, but that doesn't stop me from appreciating the insights of various Protestant writers, not to mention the spiritual beauty of their liturgical hymns.

    Are you going to let your negative attitude towards organized religion barr you from reading Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross? If you do, you're denying yourself a great chance to explore the depths of spiritual truth. St. John's writings are considered some of the best mystical texts ever written in any tradition.

    Don't cut yourself short on purpose!

    Thankfully we don't live a few hundred years ago, where I would have been burned on the stake by your church for voicing my beliefs.
    Ahem:
    Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Modern historians have begun to study the documentary records of the Inquisition. The archives of the Suprema, today held by the National Historical Archive of Spain (Archivo Histórico Nacional), conserves the annual relations of all processes between 1560 and 1700. This material provides information about 49,092 judgements, the latter studied by Gustav Henningsen and Jaime Contreras. These authors calculate that only 1.9% of those processed were burned at the stake.

    The archives of the Suprema only provide information surrounding the processes prior to 1560. To study the processes themselves, it is necessary to examine the archives of the local tribunals; however, the majority have been lost to the devastation of war, the ravages of time or other events. Pierre Dedieu has studied those of Toledo, where 12,000 were judged for offenses related to heresy.[39] Ricardo García Cárcel has analyzed thos of the tribunal of Valencia.[40] These authors' investigations find that the Inquisition was most active in the period between 1480 and 1530, and that during this period the percentage condemned to death was much more significant than in the years studied by Henningsen and Contreras.

    García Cárcel estimates that the total number processed by the Inquisition throughout its history was approximately 150,000. Applying the percentages of executions that appeared in the trials of 1560-1700--about 2%--the approximate total would be about 3,000 put to death. Nevertheless, very probably this total should be raised keeping in mind the data provided by Dedieu and García Cárcel for the tribunals of Toledo and Valencia, respectively. It is likely that the total would be between 3,000 and 5,000 executed. However, it is impossible to determine the precision of this total, owing to the gaps in documentation, unlikely that the exact number will ever be known."

  3. #63
    Sniffles
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    Default Oh no, the evil Christians are coming!


    "The black ravens are preparing a brigand attack on the USSR. Proletariat be ready!"

    Sarcasm aside: If I've acted too aggressively here, I apologize. I don't wish to turn this into a personal slugging match.

  4. #64
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well pride is one of the deadly sins; and I try to present myself with as much modesty and humility as possible. Nevertheless, I understand the point you're trying to make.
    You're welcome.

    And, thank you for the comprehensive response.

  5. #65
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well the Catholic Church was established by Christ when appointed Peter(the first Pope) as the rock upon the his church would be built. And historical evidence for the Church can be dated to the 1st century AD as well.
    I think you need to do a little bit more research on the origins of your church.

    This kind of sophistry will not get you anywhere.
    If you say so.

    I actually get along with people of various different persuations and beliefs. I do not impose my faith on anybody; nor look down upon the faith of others either.
    From a person who argues I am immature, foolish, oversimplistic, etc. for believing the way I do, I find your statement that you don't look down upon other faiths to be a blatant lie.

    I follow the example of Thomas Merton, who once declared:
    "If I affirm myself as a Catholic merely by denying all that is Muslim, Jewish, Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, etc., in the end I will find that there is not much left for me to affirm as a Catholic: and certainly no breath of the Spirit with which to affirm it."
    Nevertheless, I do not tolerate those who disrespect my spiritual tradition.
    I believe in tolerance, even for those who have no tolerance for me. It's this silly idea I have about turning the other cheek. Can't imagine where I got it.

    That's understandable on many levels. Nevertheless, don't allow that to cloud your better judgement.

    I don't care for much about Protestantism, but that doesn't stop me from appreciating the insights of various Protestant writers, not to mention the spiritual beauty of their liturgical hymns.

    Are you going to let your negative attitude towards organized religion barr you from reading Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross? If you do, you're denying yourself a great chance to explore the depths of spiritual truth. St. John's writings are considered some of the best mystical texts ever written in any tradition.

    Don't cut yourself short on purpose!
    I follow the belief that I will defend to the death any person's right to freely worship even if I disprove. My principles and judgement are quite intact.

    Ahem:
    Strange, you act as if posting percentages changes the fact that it happened. But I understand you point. Perhaps I would have just rotted in prison for expressing my beliefs.

    Are you honestly insinuating that I'm a revolutionary communist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  6. #66
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Heh, the title of this thread is certainly living up to it's name.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  7. #67
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default A Cicuitous Route

    It does seem to me that this is an argument between Roman Catholicism and Protestant Dissenters.

    It is a very old argument being rehearsed here.

    But more important is that it is the intellectual side of bigotry.

    And on this site it is replete with irony because MBTI itself is part the New Age Religion with Carl Jung as a Guru.

    And part of the New Age religion is sneering at 'organised religion' while at the same time denying that the New Age is an organised religion.

    The New Age religion is not new. It was very strong and pervasive in the beginning of the 20th Century particularly in Germany. And the ideas of the German National Socialist Workers Party were borrowed in large measure from the New Age religion.

    When the National Socialists were defeated in WW II, the New Age religion transferred itself to the New World and found a warm home for itself among the Protestant Dissenters.

    And so via this circuitous route, we have here a New Ager, a believer in MBTI, making propaganda against "organised religion", code words for Roman Catholicism.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And part of the New Age religion is sneering at 'organised religion' while at the same time denying that the New Age is an organised religion...
    I'll agree with this. Just as much dogma in it as in other religions. I have a sibling, so freaking dogmatic about his New Age ideas, he drives me nuts with it.

  9. #69
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The New Age religion is not new. It was very strong and pervasive in the beginning of the 20th Century particularly in Germany. And the ideas of the German National Socialist Workers Party were borrowed in large measure from the New Age religion.
    Yes and no. Certain factions of the NSDAP were influenced by New Age beliefs, but overall the movement was most influenced by liberal Protestantism with its concept of "Positive Christianity".

  10. #70
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    From a person who argues I am immature, foolish, oversimplistic, etc. for believing the way I do, I find your statement that you don't look down upon other faiths to be a blatant lie.
    Funny you've insisted that judging others is wrong, yet throughout this thread you make all sorts of judgements about people you don't agree with(Catholics, Conservative Christians, etc.). And right here, you call me a blatant liar.

    So maybe it's time for you to follow your beliefs, and "judge not, let thee be judged".


    I believe in tolerance, even for those who have no tolerance for me. It's this silly idea I have about turning the other cheek. Can't imagine where I got it.
    "Mere tolerance is a virtue to those who don't believe in anything."
    --GK Chesterton

    And btw, turning the other cheek has nothing to do with tolerance.

    I believe in religious freedom, not religious tolerance. They're not the same.

    I follow the belief that I will defend to the death any person's right to freely worship even if I disprove. My principles and judgement are quite intact.
    This is an evasive answer of a very deceptive kind.

    Strange, you act as if posting percentages changes the fact that it happened. But I understand you point. Perhaps I would have just rotted in prison for expressing my beliefs.
    Thus is the fine art of missing the point.


    Are you honestly insinuating that I'm a revolutionary communist?
    You do seem to share the staunch anti-Christian fervor of the Communists.

    In any case, I'm done with this charade of yours.

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