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  1. #231
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I'm all for life too. After watching my mother die slowly and painfully to cancer, my dad and I made a pact that if either of us gets like that, we bring the other cyanide.

    Suicide because some boy doesn't like you or you didn't make it in the school play is a waste of a life.

    Suicide as a way to die in your own terms when the galaxy of your body is dissipating, is another thing entirely.
    I still couldnt agree with that but I have every sympathy with you and the suffering you describe is terrible and real and would convince some upon that point.

  2. #232
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Suicide means you are making the overpopulation a lesser problem without disrespecting the integrity of other people. It's the ultimate unselfish act a person can make.
    And what if that person has dependents?

    I think suicide can often (not always) be justified by the person who is comitting it. Also can be justified by those closest, witnessing the suffering of the individual. And then you can take the view of society into account. So... look at it in different ways.

    It does depend on the circumstances though ...
    For example, a person at the end stages of terminal cancer who is in terrible pain day and night and can not bear it any longer who truely believes they are ready to go. They, the individual may feel/think it is justified. The family and friends too may feel/think it is justified. Society as a whole may also reach the same conclusion as it is a drain on resources (if national health are paying). If it is private health insurance, society may also deem it justified based on rising prices due to persons having longer treatment etc.
    Well, theres lots of variables.
    My own personal perspective is that if someone is suffering so much (mentally/physically/both) they themselves can think of no other alternative and can no longer live in their own inner turmoil.
    Well, i think it is their choice and i wouldn't judge them. I may however feel that is was a waste if other alternatives had not been explored/exhausted first and if no-one cared enough to help them.

    The problem is...when do you say enough is enough, let this poor person go?
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #233
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I wouldn't assume that all or even most people who choose to end their lives are necessarily concerned with overpopulation.
    Still, an objective analysis is quite viable.

    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I still couldnt agree with that but I have every sympathy with you and the suffering you describe is terrible and real and would convince some upon that point.
    It's amazing what shift ones perspective can have with a bit of practical experience versus mental projections.

  5. #235
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    When is it justified to bring about nuclear holocaust knowing it will end all suffering?
    I already answered that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Are you referring to a baby that will be born with a genetic or environmental disease that will cause its life to be unpleasant? Or in the general sense of that life is suffering?
    The latter. Even the happiest people suffer.

  6. #236
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I already answered that.


    The latter. Even the happiest people suffer.


    To end suffering, all you have to do is blow out the candle :]

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I already answered that.


    The latter. Even the happiest people suffer.
    Interesting.

    Do you wish then that your own existence had not existed?

  8. #238
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I think a person should have absolute control over their own life, so long as it doesn't directly physically harm another individual and isn't a behavior that will radically disrupt the flow of society around us. Obviously it would cause great anguish and emotional turmoil for loved ones, relatives, etc. but I don't think that is sound enough reasoning to put control over a person's freedom to do what they want with them self in regards to suicide. In general, it's hard to hear stories of suicide whether you know the person or not, but still I think an individual holds supreme right over themselves and their body. If that's the way someone wants to "go out" then, I don't think there should be a law that stops them. I do think that ideally the family/community unit should be vigilant to watch out for depression and signs of suicidal tendencies and to seek help to whatever extent necessary. But at some point, your power is limited over that person, and if they just can't shake the blues, then what can you do?

    My mom's best friend just recently lost her brother to suicide. I know it has been absolutely hell for my mom's friend to deal with emotionally, because she cared for her brother so much and tried for years and years to be there for him through his depression (and knowing this woman, I'm sure she went above and beyond in every way). He went in and out of treatment, tried various things, had tremendous support from his sister, but it wasn't enough and he couldn't find the will to live. Living was apparently just too much to bare. Would it be justified to restrict him from eliminating his pain?

  9. #239
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    To end suffering, all you have to do is blow out the candle :]
    Moar birfdei parteeehz!
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  10. #240
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Do you wish then that your own existence had not existed?
    Of course.

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