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  1. #211
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    when your existence is a hinderance on society.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #212
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I believe when you deal with natural biological processes of life (and death), there is a way that is meant to be. Of course, since we have higher level thinking and free will, we might try to change this reality to effect an outcome we might deem superior. But a million years of evolution is hard to better. So there is a way that is more 'meant to be.' And that is the way most rooted in nature. Ask yourself how would this happen in nature, or in the most natural way possible, and you will likely find the answer for the best outcome.


    EDIT: And I think you, or others, are taking my opinion as proselytizing. I am not expecting, nor trying, to change anyone's mind. Which is why I often use the terms 'my opinion,' 'I believe,' or etc.


    I have no desire to change your point of view, I'm more curious as to your reasoning for imposing it on others- whether you mean to or not, you sometimes speak in absolutes about your subjetive values, which can result in others feeling like you are imposing your beliefs on them- or make people wonder what your sense of concrete reality or rationality is, exactly. Your reactions appear to be inreasingly defensive, whenever anyone disagrees with or questions your standpoint. I'm not trying to trigger that sort of response, at all. I just enjoy the exchange of conflicting ideas [debating vs fighting] and analysing people's mental processes for its own sake-- and perhaps I haven't been clear enough, on that. I have no wish to push my perspective on you or anyone else. Just here to collect information & understand, or try to.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  3. #213
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I have no desire to change your point of view, I'm more curious as to your reasoning for imposing it on others- whether you mean to or not, you sometimes speak in absolutes about your subjetive values, which can result in others feeling like you are imposing your beliefs on them- or make people wonder what your sense of concrete reality or rationality is, exactly. Your reactions appear to be inreasingly defensive, whenever anyone disagrees with or questions your standpoint. I'm not trying to trigger that sort of response, at all. I just enjoy the exhange of conflicting ideas [debating vs fighting] and analysing people's mental processes for its own sake-- and perhaps I haven't been clear enough, on that. I have no wish to push my perspective on you or anyone else.
    When I state an opinion, I expect others to sit up and take notice, and to respectfully consider what I have said. I do not form opinions lightly. They mostly come about because of deep reflection, life experience, and observing human nature. I suppose my seeming defensive is my immaturity with confrontation and debate, as I have (as I just stated in another thread this am) largely tended to avoid sharing my opinions with others, as there is neither the opportunity to, or no one is interested, or people ignorantly and blindly believe in some inferior notion.

    In short, I do know better than others about many things. Especially in matters surrounding, or bordering on, metaphysical realms, life life and birth and soulfulness. If others do not see it, that is their problem.

    :queenie:
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #214
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    ^People should die a natural death. Whatever that is. I disagree with assisted suicide. I also disagree with pumping with meds to alleviate pain. When one experiences pain, one's endogenous endorphins kick in anyway, producing--I'd make an educated guess at--the ideal state for some sort of sub-conscious reflective state, passing from this side to the other. The entire process is necessary. To cut into any part of that is not ideal, and weak.
    So, are you averse to hospice, which uses palliative medicine only, as a person dies in his or her own time?

    And in all of these posts, are you suggesting that there should be *laws* which dictate the legality of such things (assisted suicide, unassisted suicide, palliative end-of-life care, choices about life support, etc)? I think that what I'm hearing from "the other side" of this argument is alarm at the thought of there being one answer to all individuals' end of life needs (though I could be wrong about that, so those of you who object to that characterization should correct me).
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #215
    A window to the soul
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    There's an enveloping presence of despair that comes after scrolling through all of the numbers in your phone and realizing that there's no one who will understand.

  6. #216
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    When I state an opinion, I expect others to sit up and take notice, and to respectfully consider what I have said. I do not form opinions lightly. They mostly come about because of deep reflection, life experience, and observing human nature. I suppose my seeming defensive is my immaturity with confrontation and debate, as I have (as I just stated in another thread this am) largely tended to avoid sharing my opinions with others, as there is neither the opportunity to, or no one is interested, or people ignorantly and blindly believe in some inferior notion.

    In short, I do know better about things than others about many things. Especially in matters surrounding, or bordering on metaphysical realms, life life and birth and soulfulness. If others do not see it, that is their problem.

    :queenie:
    No one's really questioning your knowledge of your own beliefs regarding the more abstract realm.
    As I said, just trying to understand. I always think it's interesting to compare contrasting ideas, especially when it's two people of the same MBTI type-- and moreso when the topic is highly controversial in general.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  7. #217
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    There's an enveloping presence of despair that comes after scrolling through all of the numbers in your phone and realizing that there's no one who will understand.
    That's when you go on typoc and start a thread.

    Unless it's about suicide.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  8. #218
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    So, are you averse to hospice, which uses palliative medicine only, as a person dies in his or her own time?
    Actually, yes. I am averse to most meds unless a person really needs them to function in daily life.

    Though I give those meds as a nurse. I disagree with doing so. But then, I disagree with pretty much everything in our medical system and way of life.

    And in all of these posts, are you suggesting that there should be *laws* which dictate the legality of such things (assisted suicide, unassisted suicide, palliative end-of-life care, choices about life support, etc)? I think that what I'm hearing from "the other side" of this argument is alarm at the thought of there being one answer to all individuals' end of life needs (though I could be wrong about that, so those of you who object to that characterization should correct me).
    I think the best thing is to have true informed consent, and education about choices, before a person reaches that point. Like living wills, except more explicit. Most people don't think about becoming brain damaged, or know what long-term care involves if they do. Since we are removed from contemplating death except in sensationalizing it, we need to sort of go out of our way to deal with it. Unlike earlier societies that were more intimate with death and dying, and didn't have as much technology to keep people alive, etc.

    Ultimately, I believe in people's free liberty to do as they like. But when those liberties rub against others (as it does when others must keep someone else alive), we need to be doing a better job at defining what that should/would look like I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    There's an enveloping presence of despair that comes after scrolling through all of the numbers in your phone and realizing that there's no one who will understand.
    You must not have my number in your phone. PM me if you want it.

    ~A
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    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #219
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I believe that suicide comes from a sense of hopelessness and despair. Suicide tells us what needs to be changed in society to prevent things from getting to that point for anyone. Of course in shame societies honor suicide is done for very different reasons. I think it is healthier on the whole to experience grief, loss, and sorrow and reinterpret it so that it has less power over the individual. I am not sure about physician assisted suicide in a more abstract way. From a more tangible pov I think it should be allowed in terminal illness with great pain if the individual seeks it.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #220
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    No one's really questioning your knowledge of your own beliefs regarding the more abstract realm.
    As I said, just trying to understand. I always think it's interesting to compare contrasting ideas, especially when it's two people of the same MBTI type-- and moreso when the topic is highly controversial in general.
    I agree. I love to talk about all things.


    I just dislike having to apologize about my style. Perhaps you touched on a nerve. Why can ExTJs get away with being asses but I get called on simple stating a vociferous opinion. Not just speaking to you, speaking in general.

    Why do the rudest and crudest people get lauded for 'having a heart of gold, if you only knew him' but someone who truly cares about others all the time, and wants the best for humanity, gets called a bitch for stating her opinion? Why is that?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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