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  1. #191
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I think in cases of the people medically diagnosed w/terminal illness, and are essentially in hospice care- waiting to die, bedridden & in constant pain, suicide would be justified.
    Why is that not the case for people who are not sick and in pain?

  2. #192
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    ^People should die a natural death. Whatever that is. I disagree with assisted suicide. I also disagree with pumping with meds to alleviate pain. When one experiences pain, one's endogenous endorphins kick in anyway, producing--I'd make an educated guess at--the ideal state for some sort of sub-conscious reflective state, passing from this side to the other. The entire process is necessary. To cut into any part of that is not ideal, and weak.
    I find it quite ironic how you attempted to argue in past threads how you don't judge others, by the way. It seems apparent that's what you're doing presently, whether you intend to or not. You're more or less imposing your personal ideals on others, & those who choose a different path are unversally ''weak.'' This seems highly hypocritical to your previously emphasized ideals.

    I'm merely pointing out an inconsistency in reasoning I've noticed, so please don't consider this as an attack on you as a person- I've no energy for that- I actually enjoy your insights in a lot of other threads. Just trying to understand and follow your lines of thinking.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  3. #193
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Having doctor-assisted suicide available at least removes some of the trauma and stigma associated with suicides of this nature. Ultimately, it's not up to any of us to decide how a sick, dying person ought to experience their last moments alive, regardless of personally held subjective belief systems & ideals.
    It's not the job of doctors to worry about social stigma. It is the duty of doctors to heal and treat people who are unwell. Enabling doctors to kill people is in fundamental opposition to the very nature of their work.

    It is up to us to provide care and encouragement to those who suffer. It is up to us that are healthier to be strong for those who are weak. To actively seek death is selfish and inconsiderate of those who love you.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #194
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Why is that not the case for people who are not sick and in pain?
    I think more often than not, there's a chance for recovery available for psychiatric conditions. Neuroplasticity is wonderful like that.
    Ultimately, people will do what they will. I can't judge if they're doing the right thing or not, but I feel it's a tragic waste, when someone takes their own life due to a psychological problem that has some potential to be corrected with support and care from their community and healthcare professionals. When they're dead, that potential is gone. With terminally ill, I figure that sort of potential, near the end, is not there. So that's my reasoning for my personal pov on the topic.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  5. #195
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I find it quite ironic how you attempted to argue in past threads how you don't judge others, by the way. It seems apparent that's what you're doing presently, whether you intend to or not. You're more or less imposing your personal ideals on others, & those who choose a different path are unversally ''weak.'' This seems highly hypocritical to your previously emphasized ideals.

    I'm merely pointing out an inconsistency in reasoning I've noticed, so please don't consider this as an attack on you as a person- I've no energy for that- I actually enjoy your insights in a lot of other threads. Just trying to understand and follow your lines of thinking.

    I find it ironic that you, and, it seems, everyone else, cannot see the implicit penultimate judgment that is deciding how the end of one's life should look, and that to put that entity out of its misery is to the ultimate good.


    If anything, I am safeguarding one's right to die in the way one is meant to die. When that person can no longer speak for himself. If that person wants meds, so be it. If that person wants to pull their own trigger, or have it pulled, so be it. But it is not the ideal way to exit this world. I doubt you'd see a dog that was dying, kill itself. If you have ever seen an animal put itself out of its misery, then I'd really be interested in knowing about it.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  6. #196
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    It's not the job of doctors to worry about social stigma. It is the duty of doctors to heal and treat people who are unwell. Enabling doctors to kill people is in fundamental opposition to the very nature of their work.

    It is up to us to provide care and encouragement to those who suffer. It is up to us that are healthier to be strong for those who are weak. To actively seek death is selfish and inconsiderate of those who love you.
    If everyone agreed with your opinions, assisted suicide wouldn't be legal in some states, already.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  7. #197
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    For stupid, emo reasons that are largely temporary I think it's not justified. But if someone is in pain and it will never end, then it could be justified if it's making the person unable to live their lives the way that they want to.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #198
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    If you have ever seen an animal put itself out of its misery, then I'd really be interested in knowing about it.
    http://www.nodeju.com/13085/mistreat...s-suicide.html

  9. #199
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I find it ironic that you, and, it seems, everyone else, cannot see the implicit penultimate judgment that is deciding how the end of one's life should look, and that to put that entity out of its misery is to the ultimate good.


    If anything, I am safeguarding one's right to die in the way one is meant to die. When that person can no longer speak for himself. If that person wants meds, so be it. If that person wants to pull their own trigger, or have it pulled, so be it. But it is not the ideal way to exit this world. I doubt you'd see a dog that was dying, kill itself. If you have ever seen an animal put itself out of its misery, then I'd really be interested in knowing about it.

    Where did you find this definition of being ''meant'' to do or be anything in this life, or death? To me, these are all subjective. I'm saying live and let live, or, live and let die, in some scenarios. It'd be arrogant for me to assume I know what people should or should not ultimately do in these situations. I'm no universal authority on life or death, no matter how strongly I may feel about my own beliefs.

    And what would you call refusal of food and water? Animals die of self-imposed dehydration and starvation when they're ill enough, all the time.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  10. #200
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    If everyone agreed with your opinions, assisted suicide wouldn't be legal in some states, already.
    It's very sad.

    If it weren't for opinions of terminally ill and severely disabled members of parliament assisted suicide would be legal in the UK. It was one of my highest honors to see them speak against assisted suicide laws in house of lords.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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