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  1. #151
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Putting guilt on the suicidal runs the risk of egging them into committing it. A suicidal person hardly needs another reason to be uncomfortable with themselves.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  2. #152
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I made 3 attempts, the last one when I was about 17 (decades ago). For me, it was about not understanding anything that was going on at the time. The adults around me were chaotic and totally unconcerned, and nothing made sense. I was introjecting a lot of bad stuff from people around me who were hiding facts from me. I could not get anyone to verify what I was intuiting. This made me feel extremely isolated and distrusting. I felt as if I had disappeared.

    Don't read David Foster Wallace if you're suicidal. I nearly jumped off a building when I heard that he'd done himself in. But here's the thing: I can totally understand why. Maybe this is horrible to say, but in some cases, it would almost be cruel to insist the person keep on. He was my favorite author and it will always hurt that no one could help him, but the fact is, no one could. I wouldn't want someone in that level of pain to stay alive just to please me or anyone else.

    But it's also true that you will die. You don't have to rush it; it's already a fact. So you may as well hang around as best you can and enjoy what you're able to enjoy.

  3. #153
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I made 3 attempts, the last one when I was about 17 (decades ago). For me, it was about not understanding anything that was going on at the time. The adults around me were chaotic and totally unconcerned, and nothing made sense. I was introjecting a lot of bad stuff from people around me who were hiding facts from me. I could not get anyone to verify what I was intuiting. This made me feel extremely isolated and distrusting. I felt as if I had disappeared.
    I am glad you are still here. I have appreciated your perspective. That must have been difficult.

    Do you think, in your attempts, you were attempting to draw attention to the things you were sensing?

    Don't read David Foster Wallace if you're suicidal. I nearly jumped off a building when I heard that he'd done himself in. But here's the thing: I can totally understand why. Maybe this is horrible to say, but in some cases, it would almost be cruel to insist the person keep on. He was my favorite author and it will always hurt that no one could help him, but the fact is, no one could. I wouldn't want someone in that level of pain to stay alive just to please me or anyone else.
    There is a feeling I get when I think about this and it feels like "suicide is a rational response to an irrational situation". I've really been thinking about how much in life is a problem of context. Take isolation, lack of support, sensitivity, poor coping skills, and poor relationships; mix it all together and you can have a volatile personal dynamic. The times in my life when I have really stopped caring were just when I was overwhelmed and did not know how to seek support from others. I took the burden of life entirely on my own shoulders, even though I need not do so.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #154
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FakePlasticAlice View Post
    I could go on for hours as to what finally led me to that moment..but to be brief and not strip my soul bare..it began when i was 8 years old. A combination of emotional abuse, constant bullying, abandonment, mental illness and a murder led me to the only safe place i knew..deep inside myself. Death was the only thing that held comfort for me and i thought about and planned my suicide for years. Even when i was happy i still wanted to die. I thought life just wasn't for me and i did not want to continue experiencing it.

    I truly believe that is the case for some people.. i am not anti or pro suicide..but i do believe in freedom of choice and it is a person's life and they can decide to take it if they so chose - ONLY if they are clear of mind, an adult who hasn't given their life to raising another, and there is no mental illness burried within screaming at them to end it all.

    "He who does not accept and respect those who want to reject life does not truly accept and respect life itself."

    Thomas Szasz
    This is the best post in the thread. Uninformed do-gooders moralizing about suicide is sickening to me. It's every bit as selfish to have children as it is to kill yourself, arguably more so, but who ever condemns that act?

    A MAN who retires from life does no harm to society: He only ceases to do good; which, if it is an injury, is of the lowest kind. -- All our obligations to do good to society seem to imply something reciprocal. I receive the benefits of society, and therefore ought to promote its interests; but when I withdraw myself altogether from society, can I be bound any longer? But allowing that our obligations to do good were perpetual, they have certainly some bounds; I am not obliged to do a small good to society at the expence of a great harm to myself; why then should I prolong a miserable existence, because of some frivolous advantage which the public may perhaps receive from me? If upon account of age and infirmities, I may lawfully resign any office, and employ my time altogether in fencing against these calamities, and alleviating, as much as possible, the miseries of my future life: why may I not cut short these miseries at once by an action which is no more prejudicial to society? -- But suppose that it is no longer in my power to promote the interest of society, suppose that I am a burden to it, suppose that my life hinders some person from being much more useful to society. In such cases, my resignation of life must not only be innocent, but laudable. And most people who lie under any temptation to abandon existence, are in some such situation; those who have health, or power, or authority, have commonly better reason to be in humour with the world. ~David Hume - Essay on Suicide
    I certainly intend to die at my own hand at a time of my choosing rather than of old age or infirmity. It seems to me the only rational choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Putting guilt on the suicidal runs the risk of egging them into committing it. A suicidal person hardly needs another reason to be uncomfortable with themselves.
    Actually, it's the only thing that acts as a restraint on some, but guilting someone into staying alive (and suffering profoundly) is a hideously selfish thing to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Synarch;1425359]
    Do you think, in your attempts, you were attempting to draw attention to the things you were sensing?
    Take isolation, lack of support, sensitivity, poor coping skills, and poor relationships; mix it all together and you can have a volatile personal dynamic. The times in my life when I have really stopped caring were just when I was overwhelmed and did not know how to seek support from others. I took the burden of life entirely on my own shoulders, even though I need not do so.
    [QUOTE]
    No, I really wanted to be finished. True what you say about context, though, which is another argument for hanging around -- things can change. Or sometimes you can change them. I think some suicides just feel trapped.

  6. #156
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    No, I really wanted to be finished. True what you say about context, though, which is another argument for hanging around -- things can change. Or sometimes you can change them. I think some suicides just feel trapped.
    Earlier I talked about how suicide can seem the result of a narrow perspective. The belief that things will not change, the feeling of being mired in the burdens of the present, the feeling of isolation and lack of trust and love and support, and the belief that what you feel NOW is how things ARE. For me, in those moments I feel overwhelmed and the nature of the universe itself felt oppressive. Like I was trapped in a black iron prison (in the words of Philip K. Dick). But, for me, just seeing this darkness and trying to feel it rather than escape it has been helpful.

    This is why I think it's important to discuss these things and simply listen because by listening we allow people to voice their burdens, which is difficult for me to do. But, in doing so, it can allow space for relating which can diminish isolation and increase the feeling of connectedness.

    On a related note, I was fascinated with this painting at the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam:



    Something about the black birds emerging from the wheat really spoke to me. On one of the plaques, Van Gogh mentioned in one of his letters the dark moods as "the old red and black". This is the challenge of being a sensitive person. How do you integrate your feelings in a healthy way?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #157
    Peaced Quay's Avatar
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    Yeah. Never attempted a rapid death, but a slow one by drinking from dusk til dawn, and dangerous, risky behaviors resulting from being drunk off my ass. I wanted to give myself time to marinate and think about killing myself.

    I am occasionally a nihilist...but one thing I've learned is I'm a never dealt a hand that does not enlighten me after the river. There are many things I have learned in my few years on this planet (and I'm sure there's far more in worlds before my time here, thus after). I'm hungry for the learning of life, so I straightened the shit out and kept it moving.

  8. #158
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Putting guilt on the suicidal runs the risk of egging them into committing it. A suicidal person hardly needs another reason to be uncomfortable with themselves.
    Good point. Trying to burden someone with guilt or egging them on can be a way to "deny" the truth of their feeling, perhaps out of a need to keep yourself contagion-free from their depression, but it's still a way to deny their feeling. I would listen, acknowledge, and then if they were serious I would take them seriously and get them help. It might be overreacting but this is the kind of thing where I would feel better overreacting than not underreacting.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #159
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quay View Post
    Yeah. Never attempted a rapid death, but a slow one by drinking from dusk til dawn, and dangerous, risky behaviors resulting from being drunk off my ass. I wanted to give myself time to marinate and think about killing myself.
    I think I read once that alcohol is the slow, excruciating way of killing yourself. I think it's a spectrum of behaviors that encompasses the same theme: the lack of desire or lack of coping skills necessary to take CARE of one's self.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #160
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    To be, or not to be– that is the question:
    Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
    And, by opposing, end them. To die, to sleep
    No more – and by a sleep to say we end
    The heartache and the thousand natural shocks
    That flesh is heir to – 'tis a consummation
    Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep
    To sleep, perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub,
    For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
    When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
    Must give us pause. There's the respect
    That makes calamity of so long life.
    For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
    Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
    The pangs of disprized love, the law's delay,
    The insolence of office, and the spurns
    That patient merit of th' unworthy takes,
    When he himself might his quietus make
    With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
    To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
    But that the dread of something after death,
    The undiscovered country from whose bourn
    No traveller returns, puzzles the will
    And makes us rather bear those ills we have
    Than fly to others that we know not of?
    Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,
    And thus the native hue of resolution
    Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
    And enterprises of great pith and moment
    With this regard their currents turn awry,
    And lose the name of action.—Soft you now!
    The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
    Be all my sins remembered.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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