User Tag List

First 4121314151624 Last

Results 131 to 140 of 328

  1. #131
    XES 5231311252's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Socionics
    LII
    Posts
    450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    No it isn't.
    In some cases it is.
    “'Fuck', I think. What a beautiful word. If I could say only one thing for the rest of my life, that would be it.”

  2. #132
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    1,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    In some cases it is.
    Which cases?
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  3. #133
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    8,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    Have you contemplated the act of suicide. What meaning it has and what self-perception and view on life could ultimately lead to self-demise as a conclusion?.

    I want to avoid giving any specifics just for the sake of an open discussion.
    I think about suicide all the time. It's a pretty typical response to having overwhelming feelings of fear and insecurity. The last time was just a couple days ago in Berlin. I was cold and miserable and things were weighing on my mind. I wished I could just shut down my inner voice but it kept needling me with negative images and thoughts and fears. I was alone in a foreign country and felt like being alone and traveling just put a point on how isolated I have become. How utterly fucked I feel sometimes with no one to blame but myself. Even surrounded by other people I feel trapped on the other side of a glass wall where I can't reach them and they can't reach me. I stared down into this river near a church and it looked really beautiful flowing by with big chunks of ice and even little ravens perched on the ice floes. I knew that I had it in my power to resolve everything, for myself, very easily if I really wanted to. And knowing that, feeling that power, seemed to push back the fears a bit. Eventually after what felt like several minutes, I cinched up my backpack and moved on. Feeling genuinely better even. Because, I had made the decision to keep living. To see what was over the next hill, even knowing that life would have more bitterness and pain in store for me. One day at a time and even one minute at a time can be a healthy response.

    Some days I just don't feel like I am tough enough to make it. I mean, I'm going to die anyway so those days when I just feel overwhelmed and alone with my burden it even feels like a relief to think that I could, if I wanted to badly enough, end it all. Close the curtains. We're not going to survive anyway and I regard being elderly as an insult and degradation, so if I perform a mental calculus I feel like I would have perhaps 10-20 years of good living left. But, what is 10-20 years in the grand scheme of things? Death is for all eternity. Forstalling it seems a small victory, you know?

    But I still have enough curiosity left in me that I want to see how everything washes out for me. I want to even experience the degradation of aging and the meaning giving I can derive, that I must derive, if I wish to live with any joy. There is a verse in the Gospel of Matthew that I think about in such times. It was when Jesus went to the garden where he prayed and was facing arrest, I think.

    "And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt]."

    To me, it means that even if we have to taste something bitter try to drink it and not bend life to your immediate will, but surrender yourself to it. Ultimately, we must surrender ourselves to what life has in store for us.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #134
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    8,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    I've had people close to me who were suicidal, and that has kept me from being willing to consider it. The emotional assault on those around you is beyond the comprehension of someone imploded with depression. I knew suicidal people around the time I was a teenager and first experiencing severe depression. I would have images of being dead come into my mind, but I would not give in to the idea of suicide and never will. Even if it is not the fault or motivation of the perpetrator, it is capable of an immeasurably cruel effect. It can happen as a result of chemical imbalances, and distorted perceptions, and not be the person's fault, but those left behind feel unmeasurable pain, and many outsiders take to the harshest of judgments blaming them. This is the knee-jerk social reaction. So when someone commits suicide they start a chain reaction of cruelty and judgment.

    For those physically capable, there is always someone who can benefit from your life if your focus is on giving instead of having needs filled. It is a different context for issues of euthanasia and such, but for other scenarios it can be selfish because you rob the world of the help you had the capacity to give.
    There's no question that suicide is traumatic to the people in the family or friend circle. I think this is what keeps many people from doing it, quite honestly. But, also, there are those times when you simply stop caring. This is radically egocentric, but I don't think it's necessarily criminally selfish to commit suicide. You could certainly do so in a way that diminished the pain for others, but I do think that suicidal thinking often discounts the social sphere so this impairment, which is necessary for suicide, would probably not operation in a way to allow you to spare others pain by planning your suicide in a responsible way.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #135
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    8,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RiderOnTheStorm View Post
    Has anyone not contemplated the act of suicide? Life, imo, isn't for everyone. I have come to the conclusion that it is one of nature's ways of weeding us out.
    There was an article or something I read recently, which talked about this. Basically, your odds of suicide increase if you lead a rather useless life:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/bl...t-d-2010-10-11

    I also found this journal abstract really interesting:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2408091

    Suicide is analyzed in terms of motivations to escape from aversive self-awareness. The causal chain begins with events that fall severely short of standards and expectations. These failures are attributed internally, which makes self-awareness painful. Awareness of the self's inadequacies generates negative affect, and the individual therefore desires to escape from self-awareness and the associated affect. The person tries to achieve a state of cognitive deconstruction (constricted temporal focus, concrete thinking, immediate or proximal goals, cognitive rigidity, and rejection of meaning), which helps prevent meaningful self-awareness and emotion. The deconstructed state brings irrationality and disinhibition, making drastic measures seem acceptable. Suicide can be seen as an ultimate step in the effort to escape from self and world.
    IIRC, David Foster Wallace talked somewhere, perhaps in his suicide note, about wanting to kill himself, his mind, to shut down "the master". The internal voice that will not quit. Ah, it was a commencement address:

    “Twenty years after my own graduation, I have come gradually to understand that the liberal arts cliché about teaching you how to think is actually shorthand for a much deeper, more serious idea:

    learning how to think really means learning how to exercise some control over how and what you think. It means being conscious and aware enough to choose what you pay attention to and to choose how you construct meaning from experience. Because if you cannot exercise this kind of choice in adult life, you will be totally hosed.

    Think of the old cliché about quote the mind being an excellent servant but a terrible master. This, like many clichés, so lame and unexciting on the surface, actually expresses a great and terrible truth. It is not the least bit coincidental that adults who commit suicide with firearms almost always shoot themselves in: the head. They shoot the terrible master. And the truth is that most of these suicides are actually dead long before they pull the trigger.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #136
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    8,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FakePlasticAlice View Post
    I feel quite vulnerable regarding this post, but i think it's nessecary. I don't want to hide behind the shame i feel regarding this situation when i think the healthy and more helpful thing to do would be to open up and hope something good comes from it.
    I am glad you are still here. Here to share and give voice to something we have trouble talking about but should, if for no other reason than it might diminish the painful feelings of isolation and alone-ness in others. There is a term used in 12 step programs called "terminal uniqueness". Often people will cast themselves as being so unusual and different from others, but this can operate as a way of self-isolation. By relating and hearing others we are encourage and invited to identify with them, which can reconnect us to the rest of humanity. So, I guess, thank you for giving your voice.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #137
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    8,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Sounds like the words of a man who hasn't felt happiness in a long time (or ever).

    Anyway, I'm off to some other thread. I don't want y'alls depression rubbing off on me.
    Hahahaha. Introverts can often seem afflicted by this fear of contagion from others. You guys are cute.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #138
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    8,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Yeah, when i was 19. I didn't want to live and truly believed people (kids) would be better off without me.

    It is unfortunate to live in a mind so bleak and confined by ones own perceptions that death is/was the only option to end the misery.

    With the help of a good psychiatrist, he helped me change my perceptions. I still have odd times where i think about it, but i couldn't act on it.

    The dark times pass eventually and light comes flooding in .. I now see it an honour to be here, experiencing the rough with the smooth .. Life is worth living.
    Glad you are here! I have certainly appreciated your sharing here.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I have tried... I obviously did not succeed. It makes me suspect that I'm impervioius to overdoses of prescription meds mixed with alcohol I was in treatment for PTSD at the time and really just wanted out of my life- I really didn't want to be anymore- no more thoughts.

    I have no ethical problem with it, though you have to concern yourself about the people you leave behind... that's why I put effort into making it look like an accident

    My life has moved on now though- in a positive direction
    Glad you're still here.

    Quote Originally Posted by vieamemusique View Post
    The idea of suicide comforts me actually.

    A lot of people seem to be under the impression that suicide is the coward's way out, which may be the case in some cultures - but to me it seems as if they person is willing to kill their body, their mind is already dead.
    I'm not sure I understand your meaning. I think it can actually represent a very lively mind, too lively perhaps. But, maybe you mean some sort of joyfulness has been extinguished? Desire for living?

    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    I've tried, obviously failed as I am still here.

    For me, I simply just wasn't myself at the time, and it wasn't just a 'oh it's an off day I'm not feeling like myself' thing...I really became an entirely different person for almost a year that I scared myself, and those thoughts weren't my own...it's weird to explain. So much shit was happening in my life that I became this person which in every aspect I loathed, I'm really not sure what happened. It's all a blur to me now, and my memory just erased that period of time altogether.
    Glad you're still here and thanks for sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    Life is a waste of time, in my opinion.
    Why should we be concerned with wasting time? Time is an illusion anyway, isn't it?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #139
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Have you contemplated the act of suicide. What meaning it has and what self-perception and view on life could ultimately lead to self-demise as a conclusion?.
    Yes, at various times in my life during existential crises and periods of hoplessness, I contemplated suicide. And, finally, due to an unbearable and seemingly unresolveable situation in my life, I also reached a point where I had considered suicide nightly for a period of a year, give or take a few months, after years of treated depression that had slowly eroded my quality of life. I was simultaneously in great pain + numb (if that makes sense -- the numbness to life can be bone-crushing); there was no resolution that wouldn't greatly hurt people I loved; and I would suffer endlessly if I did not make a decision, suffer a great deal if I chose to live and make changes, and suffer not at all if I were dead. I reached a point finally where I could no longer afford to not make a decision, I wasn't able to continue as-is.

    The thing for me is that I wanted to live, not die; and I was contemplating suicide because I felt like I would never be able to live. In the end, I chose to make changes rather than to die; that option allowed for the possibility of working through hurt with my family and loved ones in the hopes of healing and happiness for the maximum number of people (including myself) in the end, even though out of the choice between change and death, it involved the most suffering for me and had the most ambiguous resolution.

    Sometimes I wonder if I would have received less blame for just killing myself. But in the end, that's just the way life works; people don't like to be hurt and find it easy to blame those who instigate undesired change in their lives.

    I think people basically get to a point where live is so painful that they either change or die.
    All of which means, if they can't change, they die instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    There's no question that suicide is traumatic to the people in the family or friend circle. I think this is what keeps many people from doing it, quite honestly. But, also, there are those times when you simply stop caring. This is radically egocentric, but I don't think it's necessarily criminally selfish to commit suicide. You could certainly do so in a way that diminished the pain for others, but I do think that suicidal thinking often discounts the social sphere so this impairment, which is necessary for suicide, would probably not operation in a way to allow you to spare others pain by planning your suicide in a responsible way.
    I don't think it's necessarily criminal either; the most we can do is track the probable reverberations, but I'm not sure why morality is being dragged into it as a universal principle. People often guilt-trip the suicidal as inflicting hurt on others because they are somehow robbing the world of their capacity to give, yet are not considering how the group is robbing the individual of their capacity of choice as well as forcing them to suffer through difficult circumstances they themselves often are unable or unwilling to alleviate. (At its worst, it can remind me of pro-choice or pro-life people back in the 80's trying to force young women to follow their particular path via guilt trip, without doing anything to alleviate the difficulties or suffering they will face by choosing the offered course of action.)

    I also don't know what sort of precedent this sets in terms of considering other actions immoral. The hurt of suicide occurs due to a change in relationship; are other changes in relationship (such as breaking up with a LTR) also now necessarily immoral? A person is being blamed for exercising their will to choose an end to their involvement (rather than choosing continual unbearable suffering), in opposition to others who don't want that choice to occur, in order to spare those others pain. Again, I'm not sure a moral judgment is appropriate; all that can be said is what the impact of either choice might have.

    (The main challenge to this sort of stance, of course, is the question of thoughtful capacity: Is a suicidal person in a state of mind to make a coherent decision? This probably can differ from individual to individual.)

    I'm not one for easy answers when there are conflicting 'goods' involved, even if the conflict is painful.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #140
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    8,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't think it's necessarily criminal either; the most we can do is track the probable reverberations, but I'm not sure why morality is being dragged into it as a universal principle. People often guilt-trip the suicidal as inflicting hurt on others because they are somehow robbing the world of their capacity to give, yet are not considering how the group is robbing the individual of their capacity of choice as well as forcing them to suffer through difficult circumstances they themselves often are unable or unwilling to alleviate. (At its worst, it can remind me of pro-choice or pro-life people back in the 80's trying to force young women to follow their particular path via guilt trip, without doing anything to alleviate the difficulties or suffering they will face by choosing the offered course of action.)
    Excellent. You have made me realize that a lot of what people try to escape through suicide is the burden of the expectations of others. So, really, worrying about the sadness and trauma inflicted by your suicide cuts across the grain for why people might want to end it all in the first place. Sometimes suicide can be a big "fuck you" to the universe. Suicide can be an assertion of anger and outrage against others. We cannot control others but we can become human grenades and have the last word, as it were, through our actions.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

Similar Threads

  1. Is superior force justifiable bully back a bully?
    By great_bay in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-01-2016, 05:07 PM
  2. Is language essential for rational thinking?
    By nightning in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 03-12-2014, 07:38 PM
  3. What is Philosophy?
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 01-09-2013, 09:10 PM
  4. Timing is everything?
    By Littlelostnf in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 12-04-2007, 03:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO