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  1. #121
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FakePlasticAlice View Post
    I feel quite vulnerable regarding this post, but i think it's nessecary...
    Your post was very moving. I am thankful that you survived so much, and I do think you will be able to help other people from a unique perspective. I'm sorry to read that you had to face the things you did, and it makes me quite angry at bullies and the like. I have a lot of respect for your inner strength to be able to look back and gain understanding for yourself and others.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  2. #122
    Senior Member FakePlasticAlice's Avatar
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    ^ Thank you so much, i really appreciate it.
    "You can't take a picture of this...it's already gone."

    “But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?”
    -Mark Twain

  3. #123
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    A current state of misery, utter despair regarding the future, and a great deal of selfishness (or abject loneliness if one does not have loved ones who would be crushed by the action) seem like prerequisites for a suicidal state of mind.

    I've never considered it for more than about a minute during my darkest hour (and never for more than a few seconds at anu other time).

  4. #124
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I'm in the middle of an episode of double depression. I have a chronic disease, which I have fought against a hard as I can, but it's hard to feel like I'm endlessly treading water, no shore in sight. So, yeah, I've thought about it.

  5. #125
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Is double depression a clinical term or just very serious depression, exaccerbated by a secondary physical condition? How long have you been dealing with this nebbykoo? I'm so sorry...

  6. #126
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Is double depression a clinical term or just very serious depression, exaccerbated by a secondary physical condition? How long have you been dealing with this nebbykoo? I'm so sorry...
    Double depression is dysthymia with an episode of major depression. It is a clinical term. I've had the dysthymia since I was a child, the rest has gotten worse since my sister accidentally killer herself April 2009. I also have MS, which has a depression component, as does any chronic disease. You would not be able to tell I have it, but it has taken a toll. It ended my career as a professional musician, so there is a sense of loss. My right hand is numb and incoordinated, but I still try to play. Why do I have to deal with so much? I try to put on a happy face, but at times, I feel like the future is a dark void.
    Here's the good news: I'm smart and talented, and highly empathic. I sometimes have to remind myself of those things in order to keep my head above the waves. If anyone can pull out of this, it's me. There is always another answer.
    I feel a little exposed talking about this here, in public, but there it is. Thanks for your concern, Fidelia. Keep playing.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I believe that one's approach to suicide depends entirely on whether you believe

    1) We were created in the image of God, we are accountable to Him for the way we live, and any life (whether our own or other people's) is not ours to take away. Because animals were created to be under people's care, we are expected to treat them humanely, but killing an animal and killing a person are considered very different things.

    2) We evolved by time and chance and a series of a fortunate accidents and only the fittest survive. We are all masters of our own destiny and however we see fit to spend our lives or the lives of those around us is up to us. Because man and animals both evolved from the same sources, the value of an animal's life vs that of a person is really a judgement call, not a foregone conclusion.

    Of course there is a more moderate stance in the middle, but I don't really think it makes a lot of sense philosophically. (This is also why to me it doesn't make sense when religious groups try to combine an evolutionary stance with the Biblical account. In doing so, you are throwing out the philosophical underpinnings).

    At this time, North American societies have come to a basic agreement because there is a big divide on this issue. As long as we are not infringing on other people's freedoms, we may do as we please and we should also try to be thoughtful of the people around us to care about us.

    It seems that many cultures have agreed that out and out murder is wrong in some sense (whether philosophically or in practicality) and there is a need for laws to prevent chaos from happening. However, it is extremely hard to build any kind of effective law about either murder or suicide unless everyone is agreed on which of the two primary worldviews people are going to hold. In North America in the past few hundred years, the majority of people held or at least agreed with a Christian worldview, which became the basis for lawmaking. Now, because people largely have shifted to an evolutionary worldview, their belief system has also changed. Many are torn between still making laws that are influenced by that worldview, but without its foundation, which is illogical or else making laws that reflect the second system. The implications of that system however, demand a bigger shift than some feel comfortable with. Because there are no absolutes that are unchangeable, our standard for deciding on laws then depends primarily on the most prevalent attitudes of the day. The words right and wrong no longer really have any relevance since there is no authority higher than ourselves which determines what that might be.

    Really, I don't see A.S.'s stance as being anything but a reflection of his worldview. Many people still have a drive to live, whether or not they really have a reason to or not because of what they wish to accomplish, who they love, or are loved by. As he's said, he's not actively pursuing dying right now, he just doesn't see a real point in living.

    I strongly disagree with his outlook, but will freely admit that my conclusions about life are based on an entirely different premise, so it is not surprising that we end up in different camps.
    I think there are reasons to live that have nothing to do with religion, and I'm really puzzled by people who think that there being no god takes away meaning or is depressing. I don't get that at all. I guess I can see how it could be scary if you always felt like a god was watching over you, but that's scary, not meaningless or sad. Sometimes I think God is just a coping mechanism for the human psyche, and I believe religion was an early form of intellectualism. It's a form of philosophy.

    There are plenty of ethical reasons to treat other people with kindnes and to not murder people, etc. without there being religion. I have a friend who has a PhD in philosophy who is one of the most moral, caring people I know, and he's pretty much a de facto atheist, and he's definitely not religious.

    It's just that rational ethics are open to debate about concepts like abortion and right to die.

  8. #128
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I have contemplated suicide and seem to contemplate it more frequently with time.

    If you've never read the great seminal work, Suicide by Émile Durkheim (one of the greatest sociologists ever) than do so. It really is the book on the subject.

    But anyhow, to try putting it in a somewhat different way than Durkheim would, suicide seems to be driven either by the idea that one will never experience a sufficiently abundance of happiness or lack of unhappiness, or the sense that one is somehow preventing happiness or creating unhappiness for other valued beings by being alive. It's either a self-centered flight from despair or an attempt to help others by removing ones own perceived negative worth. It can be a combination of both, of course.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  9. #129
    XES 5231311252's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    I think it is much more selfish to force someone to live based upon how you feel about them. It's their choice in the end.

    We should be completely entitled to our own bodies, I would think.
    Freedom is only free when it's for you and me.
    “'Fuck', I think. What a beautiful word. If I could say only one thing for the rest of my life, that would be it.”

  10. #130
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    Freedom is only free when it's for you and me.
    No it isn't.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



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