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  1. #111
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    The only time I would ever even consider suicide is if I was like ...75% burned to death, or had half of my body chopped off and my guts were hanging out ... you know, like merciful death, the kind of situation where I'd also considering merciful killing of someone else, not just myself.

    I've known several people who've committed suicide and it causes so much pain and discord among the people you leave behind that I can't see it as anything as either A) an act of severe mental illness or B) an act of extreme selfishness. Either way, even looking at it in terms of myself, I've seen how my life can change and turn around, how fucked up situations have changed and then I've had luck and happiness and something completely different. Life is just like that. That's how it is.

    Even when I'm depressed, I love myself too much to commit suicide. I love the human being that I am and the gifts and skills and potential that I have. Any time I would think of killing myself, I just think of killing myself as a child or a teenager. Would I do that? No, of course not. So why would I rob the world of this human being now?

    I'm a de facto atheist, too, I'm not religious or anything, I just see how every person makes a difference, how we all affect one another and all the amazing things we can leave behind ... like people we've given birth to or houses we've built or hey, the cure for cancer like A.S. was saying...and THAT MATTERS. I think human happiness matters.

    I think there's a beauty in just being alive, you know? That's the only reason I could have even considered ISFP as a type at one point...I'm just happy to see life...to see cats and trees and grass and other living things, human or otherwise. Life is beautiful, especially when that life can be provided with maximum health and happiness.

    Life *is* the point.

  2. #112
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    And no, I don't think happiness is a sufficient enough reason to live or to continue living.
    Sounds like the words of a man who hasn't felt happiness in a long time (or ever).

    Anyway, I'm off to some other thread. I don't want y'alls depression rubbing off on me.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  3. #113
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The only time I would ever even consider suicide is if I was like ...75% burned to death, or had half of my body chopped off and my guts were hanging out ... you know, like merciful death, the kind of situation where I'd also considering merciful killing of someone else, not just myself.

    I've known several people who've committed suicide and it causes so much pain and discord among the people you leave behind that I can't see it as anything as either A) an act of severe mental illness or B) an act of extreme selfishness. Either way, even looking at it in terms of myself, I've seen how my life can change and turn around, how fucked up situations have changed and then I've had luck and happiness and something completely different. Life is just like that. That's how it is.
    I pretty much agree with Marm's comments. I know somebody whose son committed suicide a year ago. It does a great deal of harm to all of those around the individual. I've never considered it personally though I dated someone for three years who did. At the beginning of the relationship she explained that she had these thoughts about all different kinds of ways she could do it. I was shocked and we did spend a fair bit of time talking about it. After a couple months of dating, it sort of all just went away. I assume that she was experiencing some kind of depressive episode and the change in environment and circumstances somehow helped her to change her outlook. If I knew now what I knew then, I'd insist on her getting some help. I have no idea as to what happened to her after we broke up but there is a fear always in the back of my mind that these impulses may have returned to her at some later point.

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  4. #114
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I've known several people who've committed suicide and it causes so much pain and discord among the people you leave behind that I can't see it as anything as either A) an act of severe mental illness or B) an act of extreme selfishness.
    I think it is much more selfish to force someone to live based upon how you feel about them. It's their choice in the end.

    We should be completely entitled to our own bodies, I would think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Sounds like the words of a man who hasn't felt happiness in a long time (or ever).
    Not really.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    Have you contemplated the act of suicide. What meaning it has and what self-perception and view on life could ultimately lead to self-demise as a conclusion?.

    I want to avoid giving any specifics just for the sake of an open discussion.
    I would fight negative thoughts with everything I have before I would submit. Suicide is the weak, easy way out. Suicide doesn't solve any problems, it hurts people that care, and God despises it. Somewhere in this world there's someone that cares. There are better options. It does get better.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    I think it is much more selfish to force someone to live based upon how you feel about them. It's their choice in the end.

    We should be completely entitled to our own bodies, I would think.
    No man is an island. It's probably an understatement to say that there's a fundamental difference in the way you and I see the world.

    However, if someone is knocking on death's door and is in extreme *physical* pain, say half-dead of the advanced stages of AIDS, I don't begrudge them their right to die. That's why I pointed out mercy killing.

    Otherwise, I'm too full of life. Even if I was dying I'd probably try to fight it. I want life. I'm willful like that.

  7. #117
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It's probably an understatement to say that there's a fundamental difference in the way you and I see the world.
    Perhaps. Sadly, I can't discuss this topic without being called a nihilist or depressive by those who disagree with me, in an attempt to deflate my opinion. (perhaps unintentionally, by some, nonetheless...)

    :emo:
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    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    Perhaps. Sadly, I can't discuss this topic without being called a nihilist or depressive by those who disagree with me, in an attempt to deflate my opinion. (perhaps unintentionally, by some, nonetheless...)

    :emo:
    D'awww I emo INTJs.

    I'm not trying to deflate your opinion. I just disagree with you. Your stance does appear to be nihilism, I say that as an observation, not an insult.

  9. #119
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    D'awww I emo INTJs.

    I'm not trying to deflate your opinion. I just disagree with you. Your stance does appear to be nihilism, I say that as an observation, not an insult.
    Heehee.

    No, you haven't caused me any trouble. *cough*JockEdgar*hackoohoorph*

    I am only an existential nihilist.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  10. #120
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I believe that one's approach to suicide depends entirely on whether you believe

    1) We were created in the image of God, we are accountable to Him for the way we live, and any life (whether our own or other people's) is not ours to take away. Because animals were created to be under people's care, we are expected to treat them humanely, but killing an animal and killing a person are considered very different things.

    2) We evolved by time and chance and a series of a fortunate accidents and only the fittest survive. We are all masters of our own destiny and however we see fit to spend our lives or the lives of those around us is up to us. Because man and animals both evolved from the same sources, the value of an animal's life vs that of a person is really a judgement call, not a foregone conclusion.

    Of course there is a more moderate stance in the middle, but I don't really think it makes a lot of sense philosophically. (This is also why to me it doesn't make sense when religious groups try to combine an evolutionary stance with the Biblical account. In doing so, you are throwing out the philosophical underpinnings).

    At this time, North American societies have come to a basic agreement because there is a big divide on this issue. As long as we are not infringing on other people's freedoms, we may do as we please and we should also try to be thoughtful of the people around us to care about us.

    It seems that many cultures have agreed that out and out murder is wrong in some sense (whether philosophically or in practicality) and there is a need for laws to prevent chaos from happening. However, it is extremely hard to build any kind of effective law about either murder or suicide unless everyone is agreed on which of the two primary worldviews people are going to hold. In North America in the past few hundred years, the majority of people held or at least agreed with a Christian worldview, which became the basis for lawmaking. Now, because people largely have shifted to an evolutionary worldview, their belief system has also changed. Many are torn between still making laws that are influenced by that worldview, but without its foundation, which is illogical or else making laws that reflect the second system. The implications of that system however, demand a bigger shift than some feel comfortable with. Because there are no absolutes that are unchangeable, our standard for deciding on laws then depends primarily on the most prevalent attitudes of the day. The words right and wrong no longer really have any relevance since there is no authority higher than ourselves which determines what that might be.

    Really, I don't see A.S.'s stance as being anything but a reflection of his worldview. Many people still have a drive to live, whether or not they really have a reason to or not because of what they wish to accomplish, who they love, or are loved by. As he's said, he's not actively pursuing dying right now, he just doesn't see a real point in living.

    I strongly disagree with his outlook, but will freely admit that my conclusions about life are based on an entirely different premise, so it is not surprising that we end up in different camps.

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