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  1. #71
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It is, as you know, a metaphor. Unless you can prove that all the workings of the human brain are somehow connected to god, I do not see this line of reasoning going anywhere fruitful.
    My point is that even though you say you don't believe in God or universal absolutes you can't escape using language laden with moral meaning. There's a reason why you chose to use a metaphor instead of saying a bunch of ultimately arbitrary chemical reactions go off in the brain and then people respond to those reactions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The laws of logic describe patterns of thinking most human beings are capable of, but they are neither absolute nor a necessary aspect of humanity.

    Yes, if that is so, there is room for your god and myriads of other nonsensical ideas, but still no reason to believe in them.
    Sometimes I'm amazed at the amount of ground you concede.

    I don't see how you have a reason to believe anything if even logic is not absolute.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #72
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    My point is that even though you say you don't believe in God or universal absolutes you can't escape using language laden with moral meaning. There's a reason why you chose to use a metaphor instead of saying a bunch of ultimately arbitrary chemical reactions go off in the brain and then people respond to those reactions.
    I chose those words deliberately in order to find out whether you really wanted to go there. The way I describe things does not, sadly, determine the way things are.

    I recommend chapter II - 'Persons Without Minds' - from 'Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature' by Richard Rorty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Sometimes I'm amazed at the amount of ground you concede.

    I don't see how you have a reason to believe anything if even logic is not absolute.
    I am not absolute either, yet I reason, dream, feel and cannot help but do so. Evolution happens to have produced me this way.

    When we have these discussions, I do not aim to prove that there is no god (because that is, for more than one reason, impossible), but I can show that your reasons for believing in one are, as it were, irrational (which, I believe, we already agreed on some time ago).

  3. #73
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    I am an atheist, humanist, and Tao-cultivator. I suspect the odds are very strong that I'm going to marry someone with differing views of mine own (most probably a Christian) and as such decided that she could raise the children with whatever religious faith she grew up with so long as the values we teach are kids are grounded in empathy, fairness, and compassion.

    She would also however have to accept that I may or may not convert or share her beliefs. If she did not accept that, then a long term union would not be possible.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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