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  1. #31
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    My mom was Jewish and my dad was Christian and we were raised Christian. My mother decided to go back to Judaism in her 30s and was basically told "too bad, so sad, you didn't practice as an adult and didn't raise your children as Jews (and didn't have the adoption ceremony as a baby), you can't get back into it." She's an atheist now.

    My cousin married a muslim and converted to Islam as is raising his children as muslims.

    The people who are saying since you are both theists you should raise your kids as non-theists is a bit strange. It's not an unacceptable option but it's also not a stronger choice than many others.

    The argument that "well atheism is right and christians and muslims are wrong" doesn't sound any more clued in than some theists that argue they are "right because they are right"

  2. #32
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    You're being contradictory.

    Without religion there is no such thing as a "good thing."


    What is conducive for self-replicating, holistic, open-ended outcomes.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  3. #33
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post

    What is conducive for self-replicating, holistic, open-ended outcomes.
    I don't understand what you're getting at.
    Please explain.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #34
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I'm totally open to your interpretation of reality, I can't objectively say there's anything ''wrong'' with it- I just don't personally relate to it, so was trying to understand the lines of reasoning in your mind that lead you to your conclusions about this world.
    Can you say that anything is objectively bad or good?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    If trying to understand a different perspective is narrow-minded, then what precisely is open?

    I'm suddenly reminded of the chastising I received when I raised similar questions, attending church, in my youth. Questions only seem to provoke hostility and indignation.
    If you're trying to understand or ask questions you're going about it in a strange way. Your first interaction with me was to laugh at what I said. Then when you asked an ambiguous question (that was really a veiled argument) I asked you to clarify even though I wanted to argue against what I presumed you meant. Your response was not a clarification, but a presumption of what I meant which was followed by your condemning of what you thought I thought.

    I'm sorry to make you feel chastised, but simply because you value open-mindedness doesn't mean you are always actually being open-minded.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #35
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I don't understand what you're getting at.
    Please explain.
    What is good for yourself and others simultaneously on all levels. Like game theory. Things which maximize potential by combining many good things together. Processes that are self-cycling like the food chain or the water cycle. The "circle of life" if you will that is able to sustain many many contradictory processes within itself. Universal complexity.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  6. #36
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    What is good for yourself and others simultaneously on all levels. Like game theory. Things which maximize potential by combining many good things together. Processes that are self-cycling like the food chain or the water cycle. The "circle of life" if you will that is able to sustain many many contradictory processes within itself. Universal complexity.
    My point is that without religion (or at least a God for deists) moral relativism is the only logical stance. You might be able to develop and build a more complex belief system like you just provided, but I don't see how this means anything if at the bottom of it every good is totally subjective. Even words like "maximize" and "potential" would be subjective outside of a created order. Universal complexity wouldn't have a higher value than that which is simple it's just different. It just is.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #37
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Can you say that anything is objectively bad or good?




    If you're trying to understand or ask questions you're going about it in a strange way. Your first interaction with me was to laugh at what I said. Then when you asked an ambiguous question (that was really a veiled argument) I asked you to clarify even though I wanted to argue against what I presumed you meant. Your response was not a clarification, but a presumption of what I meant which was followed by your condemning of what you thought I thought.

    I'm sorry to make you feel chastised, but simply because you value open-mindedness doesn't mean you are always actually being open-minded.
    I laughed because your post amused and confused me in terms of logical reasoning- it wasn't meant to offend.

    You're reading between lines that don't exist; perhaps that's a kneejerk defensive reaction on your part- I don't know you well enough to conclude one way or the other; all I can do is reiterate my own motivations here.

    I say what I mean exactly how I phrase it, and state my intentions. There's nothing to veil. I even clarified further in other posts to try to make sure you understood my objectives here, that I'm not trying to attack you or your values. I'm not here to convert, insult, or criticize. Only here to learn. Some people learn by asking questions that may challenge the standard they're examining.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  8. #38
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    The only couple I have ever seen do this successfully was a Jewish/Catholic couple with two kids. That's it. None of the others, and there were many, ever worked long term.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  9. #39
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I laughed because your post amused and confused me in terms of logical reasoning- it wasn't meant to offend.

    You're reading between lines that don't exist; perhaps that's a kneejerk defensive reaction on your part- I don't know you well enough to conclude one way or the other; all I can do is reiterate my own motivations here.

    I say what I mean exactly how I phrase it, and state my intentions. There's nothing to veil. I even clarified further in other posts to try to make sure you understood my objectives here, that I'm not trying to attack you or your values. I'm not here to convert, insult, or criticize. Only here to learn. Some people learn by asking questions that may challenge the standard they're examining.
    Ok, I'll take you at your word.

    Do you understand where I'm coming from now?
    Do you still believe my first two posts were illogical?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #40
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    This issue isn't living happy together. I know that is going to be easy
    If this is true, the details of this issue will likely sort themselves out semi-naturally with one or two discussions on what you both want.

    Personally, I would encourage the position some people have taken in encouraging your kids to have an open mind, and if they come to you with questions about any one belief system, you do your best to answer without prejudice, endorsement or bias (except in cases of inherently extreme or violent belief systems, of course). Regardless of what they believe in the end, it seems deeply unlikely to me that teaching a child to keep an open mind and rely on themselves to discover answers, even to some big questions, cannot possibly be a bad thing in the long run.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

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