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Why believe in Christianity???

88reconcile88

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My friend and I were recently discussing God. He is a die hard believer and always talks of 'faith'. He will not listen to my ideas, but yet I will listen to him. I was thinking, how can I go to church and obey specific commands, rituals, teachings etc... When there is tons of religions out there who all have different commands, rituals, teachings etc... And each different religion believes that their religion is the unquestionable truth and everyone else's religion is false. Now obviously ( no logically) not all of the existing religions can be true at the same time. Does each believer think that their religion is correct, and that obeying will bring them peace? If one is right, then the others are wrong. Idolatry is prohibited in the Christian religion, but if you Christians really believe that, then you are saying that the other 4.9 billion people around the world who aren't Christians are worshipping false gods. Christianity only consumes about 33% of people. Why would Christianity be ''the truth"!!! Why wouldn't it be Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, or even Egyptian and Greek mythology.
 

Totenkindly

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To answer one of your questions, not all religious faiths consider themselves exclusive.

More conservative Christian faiths do, and will present arguments as to why their interpretation of Jesus is the right one, why he wasn't crazy, why he was the Son of God, and thus if you do not accept their claims you (sadly) will one day go to hell unless you change your mind. [Read Josh McDowell for a basic evangelist approach to presenting the gospel.]

However, this is not the same among all faiths, some faith systems allow salvation for others outside their beliefs and consider theirs just one route to enlightenment.

I think I have had the same issue -- I'm more open and will listen to alternate views seriously, to see if they have merit, but I would become frustrated when the favor was not returned by someone who was claiming moral superiority to me.
 

Fluffywolf

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Not everyone is capable of objectively discussing religion with people that have different beliefs.

I myself wonder if to some extent it is because those people have been 'forcefed' their beliefs to them, not wanting to hear anything about other beliefs or opinions, because they would feel like they might start questioning their own faith, which is a blasphemy to them and their society.

Minor observation to support this notion:

Every theist I have met that has chosen their beliefs later in life themselves, or are reformed because they wanted to, are always people that seem open to objective discussion with anyone from any other belief. They don't need to question their own belief.
 

Fluffywolf

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What if they are all true simultaneously?

You mean what if heaven is a place that is shaped in a way you have felt it to be like based on your beliefs in your life. So when a christian dies he goes to his version of heaven whereas if an atheist dies he goes to nothingness, etc, etc.. Then would it not be safe to assume we could not communicate anymore with each other in such an afterlife, apart from constructs of our own imagination? If so, what would be the point of heaven, if it's nothing more than one long eternal dream?
 
A

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Not everyone is capable of objectively discussing religion with people that have different beliefs.
How does one objectively discuss religious faith? (Something which is, by definition, impossible to view objectively.)
 

Fluffywolf

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How does one objectively discuss religious faith? (Something which is, by definition, impossible to view objectively.)

I mean the discussion about it objectively. Explaining your belifs and stances and hearing someone elses without resorting to telling them what is wrong and right in general.

I sometimes enjoy talking to theists, how they came to their belief, what they find important about their beliefs, etc. But most times when it comes to me talking about my beliefs, it usually turns sour. Only few theists can seemingly bring up the understanding and respect to also hear me out without going apeshit on me. From experience, the once that can are usually the ones that have personally chosen their beliefs instead of being raised up in them.
 

ceecee

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I mean the discussion about it objectively. Explaining your belifs and stances and hearing someone elses without resorting to telling them what is wrong and right in general.

I sometimes enjoy talking to theists, how they came to their belief, what they find important about their beliefs, etc. But most times when it comes to me talking about my beliefs, it usually turns sour. Only few theists can seemingly bring up the understanding and respect to also hear me out without going apeshit on me. From experience, the once that can are usually the ones that have personally chosen their beliefs instead of being raised up in them.

Isn't that the whole idea of faith? People can say that they believe, what drew them to that belief (if they were raised that way or came to their own conclusion on it), why they chose that flavor of faith. They won't/can't explain it because they don't have to. They can go apeshit on you because they feel they are exclusively right and you are clearly not seeing what they see. No shit! It's the ultimate cop out because it doesn't require any explanation/proof/evidence. It's faith.
 
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I mean the discussion about it objectively. Explaining your belifs and stances and hearing someone elses without resorting to telling them what is wrong and right in general.

I sometimes enjoy talking to theists, how they came to their belief, what they find important about their beliefs, etc. But most times when it comes to me talking about my beliefs, it usually turns sour. Only few theists can seemingly bring up the understanding and respect to also hear me out without going apeshit on me. From experience, the once that can are usually the ones that have personally chosen their beliefs instead of being raised up in them.

I understand. This happens among Christians too. I was cornered by a couple of Calvinists at a meetup group last week. It turned sour when they scoffed and called me Arminian. I had no idea what a Calvinist or an Arminian was. When they told me, I realized they were scoffing at me because they thought I was going to hell. Terrible. I don't do that.
 

Fluffywolf

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I understand. This happens among Christians too. I was cornered by a couple of Calvinists at a meetup group last week. It turned sour when they scoffed and called me Arminian. I had no idea what a Calvinist or an Arminian was. When they told me, I realized they were scoffing at me because they thought I was going to hell. Terrible. I don't do that.

Aye, and I wondered if they do that out of fear of losing their beliefs if they would question it. Like they are brainwashed into believing theyre is no choice but never made the choice to believe themselves. They will keep on shunning anyone from any other belief in order to reaffirm their own to themselves.
 

Mycroft

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Jennifer, can you discuss that in more detail? All of the variants of Christianity I'm aware of are pretty clear on their assertion that all the other variants are wrong and either will not be saved or will go to Hell, depending upon their belief system.

How can you be an actual Christian (rather than simply a deist or pantheist who thinks Christ a.) probably existed and b.) was a good guy) and still believe that, say, a Buddhist will also be "saved"? Do you consider "salvation" synonymous with "enlightenment"?

(Just a note: if this came across as an attack, it's not. I'm genuinely curious.)
 
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mycroft said:
All of the variants of Christianity I'm aware of are pretty clear on their assertion that all the other variants are wrong and either will not be saved or will go to Hell, depending upon their belief systems
That's not correct for me. And my Christian belief system comes from the Bible. :)

EDIT: I don't think Calvinists or Mormons or any other man made variation of Christianity is going to hell, even though they think I am.
 

Lark

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My friend and I were recently discussing God. He is a die hard believer and always talks of 'faith'. He will not listen to my ideas, but yet I will listen to him. I was thinking, how can I go to church and obey specific commands, rituals, teachings etc... When there is tons of religions out there who all have different commands, rituals, teachings etc... And each different religion believes that their religion is the unquestionable truth and everyone else's religion is false. Now obviously ( no logically) not all of the existing religions can be true at the same time. Does each believer think that their religion is correct, and that obeying will bring them peace? If one is right, then the others are wrong. Idolatry is prohibited in the Christian religion, but if you Christians really believe that, then you are saying that the other 4.9 billion people around the world who aren't Christians are worshipping false gods. Christianity only consumes about 33% of people. Why would Christianity be ''the truth"!!! Why wouldn't it be Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, or even Egyptian and Greek mythology.

Its good to have an enquiring mind, I'd recommend you read Pascal from reading your post and ask instead why not believe in Christianity?
 

UniqueMixture

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I understand. This happens among Christians too. I was cornered by a couple of Calvinists at a meetup group last week. It turned sour when they scoffed and called me Arminian. I had no idea what a Calvinist or an Arminian was. When they told me, I realized they were scoffing at me because they thought I was going to hell. Terrible. I don't do that.

Were they ntjs?

P.S.

Would you think it?
 

Lark

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Jennifer, can you discuss that in more detail? All of the variants of Christianity I'm aware of are pretty clear on their assertion that all the other variants are wrong and either will not be saved or will go to Hell, depending upon their belief system.

How can you be an actual Christian (rather than simply a deist or pantheist who thinks Christ a.) probably existed and b.) was a good guy) and still believe that, say, a Buddhist will also be "saved"? Do you consider "salvation" synonymous with "enlightenment"?

(Just a note: if this came across as an attack, it's not. I'm genuinely curious.)

In the only passages to actually deal with judgement, I'm thinking principally of one in Mathew, Jesus does not mention religious affiliation or denomination, he mentions deeds and wether or not people objectively failed to practice what they preached, the people involved may have been christian believers because they suggest that if they had only recognised him they would have acted differently but I would suggest that its more likely he was talking in broader strokes.

Why? Because the whole of Jesus' ministry was about demonstrating that God's favour was an inclusive and not an exclusive thing, it was not restricted to the ethnic-nationalist boundaries of the Hebrews as had been discussed previously in the old testament, he extends it to enemies, he even heals them which was at the time also about forgiveness of sins/God's favour.

The exclusionary/elective thinking about God's favour I has been a curse, it existed in the old testament, just enough of it survived into the new testament to permit its transmission to things like Calvinism, Lutherianism and other schismatic or sectarian tendencies.
 

Lark

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What if they are all true simultaneously?

From serious study of all the world religions I have thought this for some time, it is possible that God has spoken in as many ways as there are peoples and languages and dialects.

On the other hand I do think that religion is like mathematics, its possible to get the right answer but the working out is wrong, its possible to get near to the right answer with different working out too but in the end there's only one right answer.
 

Lark

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You mean what if heaven is a place that is shaped in a way you have felt it to be like based on your beliefs in your life. So when a christian dies he goes to his version of heaven whereas if an atheist dies he goes to nothingness, etc, etc.. Then would it not be safe to assume we could not communicate anymore with each other in such an afterlife, apart from constructs of our own imagination? If so, what would be the point of heaven, if it's nothing more than one long eternal dream?

I cant remember his name but I did read some interesting stuff from someone who is a physicist or some sort of scientific researcher who has suggested that he believes God or the cosmos gives people what they want, if athiests have a strong believe in oblivion then that's what they'll get. I dont believe that necessarily but I could see how if you've been real conviction athiest all your life and embittered about it that dying, discovering that you're wholly wrong and even if this is accompanied with forgiveness or an opportunity for reconciliation it would still be hell. Imagine it as the worst social faux pas possible or very worst family feud and fall out, sometimes even if there's no judgementalism and its not being mentioned incidents of disgrace or mistaken beliefs are still enough to drive people crazy and make their lives hell.

Within evangelical circles, which I'll confess are a dry and distant land to me, I think Rob Bell has come nearest the mark by suggesting people can have as much heaven or hell as they like, in this life or any other, and its all about adjustment, the gospels of Jesus being one of principle and best guides available as to how.
 

UniqueMixture

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Then do you relate to how your thoughts may make others feel?

From serious study of all the world religions I have thought this for some time, it is possible that God has spoken in as many ways as there are peoples and languages and dialects.

On the other hand I do think that religion is like mathematics, its possible to get the right answer but the working out is wrong, its possible to get near to the right answer with different working out too but in the end there's only one right answer.

What if each person reflects a face of god? What if god is not perfect?
 
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