Why believe in Christianity???

[Mole]

The Christians would just say that they are all worshiping the Trinity, and just don't know it.

Who's to say that they're wrong? Who's to say that they're right?

And Pagans would say we are all worshipping Zeus and Poseidon but we just don't know it. And who's to say they're wrong? Who's to say they're right?

 

[CreativeCait]

[MENTION=15744]CreativeCait[/MENTION]

Sorry, it's a sensitive subject for me and you don't deserve that. I hate the condescension of Christian thought. Oh, if only you could open your heart to God all your problems will be solved! (I know this is not what you're intending consciously.) The implication being that I am an immoral person or that I have yet to experience the light of day. As I said earlier in this thread I am not an atheist and I have very personal spiritual experiences.

http://www.6seconds.org/2007/01/26/the-physics-of-emotion-candace-pert-on-feeling-good/

I agree with her and have taught myself to trigger this experience and I wish I could explain it better. I'm curious if I had been raised atheist and learnt this how it would feel. Anyway, Christianity really fucked me up emotionally. It made me feel ashamed for loving science, math, and physics when that is a part of who I am. So, you'll forgive me if I don't give a damn about -religion- and hope it dies.

Ok, no worries, I understand where you are coming from now. And yeah, for the record, that’s not what I think about myself being Christian and other people not being Christian. I have many friends of all kinds of spiritual/religious persuasions and I respect their beliefs and in no way do I think they are immoral. They are truly beautiful people.

In fact, I am very interested in other Religion/Spirituality and what other people believe. Would you label your beliefs in any way? Or is it more your personal eclectic set of beliefs/values/experiences/spirituality?

That article is really interesting. Especially the bit about our brain being hard-wired to be in ‘bliss’ , as a part of connecting to God and producing endorphins. Personally, I figured there is hard wiring in the body that leads us to want to connect with God, so this is quite interesting. I wonder how the peptides work on AIDS....???

For me, Science and Christianity fit comfortably side-by-side. But I know that for lots of people, the interaction between Religion and Science has been a painful one and I am truly sorry about your experience. Especially for feeling ashamed about science, math and physics and the emotional trauma you have gone through. IMO not only are they great academic disciplines that are integral to our lives, I think they are an important way of connecting with the Divine.

 

[Mole]

Freeing the Psyche

Christianity is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. Christianity is imagined freedom and equality. Christianity is symbolic freedom.

So how can we free ourselves in reality?

We have already made great strides towards freedom in the West and developed countries.

We have freed ourselves from scarcity with modern economics;
we have freed ourselves from disease with modern medicine;
we have freed ourselves from tyranny with liberal democracy;
we have freed ourselves from superstition with modern science;
we freed ourselves from institutional slavery in 1833;
we freed women from subjugation with their emancipatation in the beginning of the 20th century;
and we freed children from sexual abuse in the last decade of the 20th century;
and we are freeing ourselves from war as the incidence of war is declining (click on - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002019818_war30.html)

All that is necessary now, at least in the West and developed countries, is to free our psyche.

 

[UniqueMixture]

Ok, no worries, I understand where you are coming from now. And yeah, for the record, that’s not what I think about myself being Christian and other people not being Christian. I have many friends of all kinds of spiritual/religious persuasions and I respect their beliefs and in no way do I think they are immoral. They are truly beautiful people.

In fact, I am very interested in other Religion/Spirituality and what other people believe. Would you label your beliefs in any way? Or is it more your personal eclectic set of beliefs/values/experiences/spirituality?

That article is really interesting. Especially the bit about our brain being hard-wired to be in ‘bliss’ , as a part of connecting to God and producing endorphins. Personally, I figured there is hard wiring in the body that leads us to want to connect with God, so this is quite interesting. I wonder how the peptides work on AIDS....???

For me, Science and Christianity fit comfortably side-by-side. But I know that for lots of people, the interaction between Religion and Science has been a painful one and I am truly sorry about your experience. Especially for feeling ashamed about science, math and physics and the emotional trauma you have gone through. IMO not only are they great academic disciplines that are integral to our lives, I think they are an important way of connecting with the Divine.

Ty. I don't mean to be hostile. Just don't want ppl to waste their lives like I did

 

[Coriolis]

So God is so multifaceted as to embrace Zeus and Poseidon. And God is so multifaceted as to embrace child sacrifice, animal sacrifice, the sacrifice of His Son, and even the sacrifice of the psyche, not to mention the sacrifice of common sense and common decency.

The human interpretations of God include Zeus and Posideon, and the human responses to their beliefs have included the types of sacrifice you list, as well as the Inquisition. This says more about people than about God. We often see in God what we want to see, and use that view to justify giving in to our baser instincts.

 

[Lark]

And Pagans would say we are all worshipping Zeus and Poseidon but we just don't know it. And who's to say they're wrong? Who's to say they're right?

Whether or not the pagan patheon exists or shares the existence of others, I dont believe so but could be proven wrong, they are less perfect that either Yaweh or Jesus so if someone wants to follow imperfection then I guess that's their choice but I'll exercise my own and follow Yah and JC.

 

[Lark]

Christianity is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. Christianity is imagined freedom and equality. Christianity is symbolic freedom.

So how can we free ourselves in reality?

We have already made great strides towards freedom in the West and developed countries.

We have freed ourselves from scarcity with modern economics;
we have freed ourselves from disease with modern medicine;
we have freed ourselves from tyranny with liberal democracy;
we have freed ourselves from superstition with modern science;
we freed ourselves from institutional slavery in 1833;
we freed women from subjugation with their emancipatation in the beginning of the 20th century;
and we freed children from sexual abuse in the last decade of the 20th century;
and we are freeing ourselves from war as the incidence of war is declining (click on - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002019818_war30.html)

All that is necessary now, at least in the West and developed countries, is to free our psyche.

When did you become a Marxist Victor?

 

[ilikeitlikethat]

Because it teaches love with stories of people getting cast out because Our Heavenly Father, My Lord damned them or tested their faith.

 

[Mole]

We should support Christianity because it has been tamed by the Enlightenment. So that now Christianity accepts the separation of Church and State, the value of evidence and reason, and liberal democracy.

By contrast Islam has not been tamed by the Enlightenment. And so Islam does not accept the separation of Mosque and State and has a holy duty to impose Sharia on the world. And Islam does not accept the value of evidence and reason and rejects science in favour of the Koran. And rather than acepting liberal democracy, the holy book of Islam teaches violent jihad and martrydom.

 

[Mole]

When did you become a Marxist Victor?

Just as the Devil can quote the Scriptures in his own interest, so I quote Karl Marx.

 

[UniqueMixture]

Whether or not the pagan patheon exists or shares the existence of others, I dont believe so but could be proven wrong, they are less perfect that either Yaweh or Jesus so if someone wants to follow imperfection then I guess that's their choice but I'll exercise my own and follow Yah and JC.

Perhaps Gods can change over time as well just like people. Perhaps Yahweh was a cruel tribal diety of the edomites with ashtoreh as a consort.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#section_1

It's interesting how yahweh evolved once more

After babylonian captivity influenced rabbinical tradition

It is also interesting how christ has so many overlaps with bel-marduk

http://www.bobkwebsite.com/belmythvjesusmyth.html

It is interesting how Mithra and Jesus share similarities as well.

Perhaps we are evolving a world narrative where one day ganesh slayed tiamat releasing the big bang from her corpse ^^

 

[Mole]

R.I.P.

Perhaps Gods can change over time as well just like people. Perhaps Yahweh was a cruel tribal diety of the edomites with ashtoreh as a consort.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#section_1

It's interesting how yahweh evolved once more

After babylonian captivity influenced rabbinical tradition

It is also interesting how christ has so many overlaps with bel-marduk

http://www.bobkwebsite.com/belmythvjesusmyth.html

It is interesting how Mithra and Jesus share similarities as well.

Perhaps we are evolving a world narrative where one day ganesh slayed tiamat releasing the big bang from her corpse ^^

Of course God died in the 19th century of a broken heart over His rejection by the Enlightenment. Of course we miss Him, as He held such a special place for us, and we held a special place for Him as we were made in His image, but to find we are made in the image of apes was too much for Him to take, and he turned his face to the wall and gave up the ghost. R.I.P.

 

[Coriolis]

By contrast Islam has not been tamed by the Enlightenment. And so Islam does not accept the separation of Mosque and State and has a holy duty to impose Sharia on the world. And Islam does not accept the value of evidence and reason and rejects science in favour of the Koran. And rather than acepting liberal democracy, the holy book of Islam teaches violent jihad and martrydom.

This is a critical point. Islam is ~600 years younger than Christianity. 600 years ago, Christianity was undergoing the Inquisition. It remains to be seen whether Islam will experience its own enlightenment, sparked by the thoughts of progressive, modern Muslims who risk death threats to bring their faith out of its dark ages.

Perhaps Gods can change over time as well just like people. Perhaps Yahweh was a cruel tribal diety of the edomites with ashtoreh as a consort.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#section_1

It's interesting how yahweh evolved once more

After babylonian captivity influenced rabbinical tradition

It is also interesting how christ has so many overlaps with bel-marduk

http://www.bobkwebsite.com/belmythvjesusmyth.html

It is interesting how Mithra and Jesus share similarities as well.

Perhaps we are evolving a world narrative where one day ganesh slayed tiamat releasing the big bang from her corpse ^^

It is the human understanding of God that has evolved over time, and in different ways in different places and cultures. These overlaps and similarities, though, suggest that the various images, aspects, and interpretations of the divine are really all pointing at the same thing. The idea of the big bang originating from the death of a dragon is very similar to the creation myth of my own spiritual path.

 

[UniqueMixture]

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] for me all perception is a realtime evolving matrix of sensation so I feel you. I was just cresting a spiritual remix of panglobal creation stories. Namaste I respect your path brother

 

[RaptorWizard]

If you don't beleive in Yahweh he will throw your spiritual body into a colossal nuclear furnace aboard his space station of doom and death.

idk random just a theory

 

[Ginkgo]

We only create reality insofar as we choose to believe. Ie. Reality makes an impression on us, and we choose how we interpret and make sense of it. In this way, we are in a relationship with it. We believe in things, but some do not believe in the potential of belief itself. Analysis is only as useful for cultivating an understanding of the things we want to believe as much as we do not understand the things we want to believe. All concepts are understood a priori after we choose to believe in them. However, not all concepts are logical, therefore, those are composed of at least a lesser concept and an element of pure experience. To believe in an illogical concept is to submit to reality because it necessitates that we admit to ourselves that we do not comprehend, and yet we believe. I believe God is that reality, and is impenetrable precisely because God doesn't make sense. Gregory of Nyssa coins his mystical teaching of "epektasis" by interpreting Moses's ascent of Mt. Sinai as an enjoyment of God's presence, oddly, in the search for God. In this search, we may determine what we want from life in between the things we need and already have if we choose to believe in them. Through Christ, we may accept death (which is a necessary part of life) - more importantly, the death of our corporeal existence. Paradoxically, it is Christ's corporeal nature that allows us to identify and personify him in order to reflect upon our relationship with God, and our volatile nature. At the end of the day, belief requires symbols, and everyone requires a hero believe in. The need is pervasive; we may see it in the tale of Heracles, Paul Atreides, and even Neo from The Matrix. These examples of iconic representations are of how people tend to want to live. I see no reason why anyone shouldn't believe in a real man, conscious of God in a way we can scarcely attain, to fulfill a significance that doesn't exclude a naturalistic observation of the world, and doesn't exclude a passion for desires that drive us.

ps- please excuse my hive-mind speak. It's meant in reference to likeminded people and I.

 

[Ginkgo]

You know, I've never appreciated the whole suffering aesthetic. I can find nothing upliftng in it, and I think this is perhaps why I've never 'felt' faith. It reminds me of the first time I saw the film Au Hasard Balthazaar. I was informed that the ending was redemptive, but I felt like it only portrayed sorrow and helplessness. That's kind of how I feel about the story of Jesus in general. Like it's a celebration of helplessness.

It's not a story of helplessness. It's a story of heroism in accepting fate. Why victimize Christ if He didn't victimize Himself? It's not like he played opposum on a stick.

 

[Lexicon]

 

[Ginkgo]

 

[Totenkindly]

[MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION]: Your pics remind me of a great song from the Broadway show "The Book of Mormon."

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP_FT-0yS0Y"]"Man Up" from The Book of Mormon[/YOUTUBE]


So interesting to me what a symbol Jesus has become, able to be swiped by various groups to represent the particular image of holiness/faith that they want to identify with. (I've seen this kind of masculinity touted recently in the more modernized conservative movements, by the Power Team, etc.)