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  1. #71
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, we will now be able to see this acted out in reality, as the Egyptians, the Libyans, the Tunisians, the Iraqis, the Afgans have chosen to be Islamic States ruled by Islamic Law called Sharia.

    And Sharia, as you know, is not based on freedom and equality, but rather submission and inequality. And this is submission and inequality freely chosen as an act of faith in Allah.
    I'm moving to Iraq!

  2. #72
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So to ask whether a religion is true or false is just as silly as asking whether a poem is true or false.

    So the question we should ask of a religion is whether it supports freedom and equality for all.
    Yes. It is senseless to judge a subjective expression by objective standards, just as it is senseless to judge an objective activity (like a scientific experiment) by subjective standards (e.g is it pretty?)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #73
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    @gmanyo

    well Im a Taoist but I grew up Protestant (methodist, church of god, then Lutheran on my own as a young adult) and what I didn't comprehend even at 12 or 13 was the Christian attitude toward women and sex. Being appalled about the treatment of gays and other irrational facets of doctrine came later. I was even drawn to Irish and English pagan religions until I decided they too were irrational, because of the honoring of the earth and because of a sacred attitude toward women and sexuality. I realized only as an adult that Taoism is the only thing that made rational sense to me and also seemed like something I had inwardly known my entire life, like I read it and said "yes."

    Catholics however continually get my respect because yes they're pretty much the only Christians who perform work for the poor and sick that they actually own hospitals where they dont turn anyone away, and they are organized enough that they are the only church that could even potentially replace the government in terms of social programs in the immediate world, not just evangelizing over in Africa.

    They're also HIGHLY educated people, their schools are far beyond public schools and their priests have PhDs, which is probably why the average Catholic isn't enough of a moron to wear shirts that say things like God Hates Fags Dead.

    I really respect Catholics and if I ever converted to Christianity, Catholicism is the way Id go.

    Not only do they honor the sacred feminine in their own chaste way, but they honor art and music and architecture as being part of God.

  4. #74
    sswwwaagggg gmanyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    @gmanyothey're pretty much the only Christians who perform work for the poor and sick that they actually own hospitals where they dont turn anyone away, and they are organized enough that they are the only church that could even potentially replace the government in terms of social programs in the immediate world, not just evangelizing over in Africa.
    Do you really think that Catholics are the only Christians who do good for the poor? Are you basing this solely on anecdotal evidence from your own life? A 2003 study shows that protestants are actually the most generous with donating money and volunteering. I literally just got back from a trip to a mostly protestant non profit organization in the Philippines that runs a school and multiple orphanages for kids in the slums. I could easily list dozens of protestant organizations that do many things for the poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    but they honor art and music and architecture as being part of God.
    I can't remember one Christian that doesn't believe this, Catholic or not, and I've met hundreds of Christians from dozens of different denominations and countries (many of whom I've met while in different countries).
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
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  5. #75
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I don't know if all modern believers think this way. If you think about it historically, you need to wonder about a lot of things and I think it's healthy to question your own faith. I think a lot of Muslims are actually pretty accepting of Christianity and Judaism and many of the rituals of different religions have similar goals. Thankfulness, repentance, worship, all that moral stuff. If you look at a lot of the great prophets, it's like they all said similar things, and even like old Hindu religions and stuff tend to follow the "truth". I think we are naturally just moral beings and have an inclination towards believing in certain things, everything else that follows is just details. There are still many really old fashioned people out there who follow their faith and believe that there is only one true faith, true rituals, etc. That's what they need to do here on Earth to relate to God and their religious communities. However, I think that time has proven that it's up to each person decide how they can grow spiritually and understand God and the universe. If people who follow rituals and traditions and dogma bugs you too much to follow a faith, so be it. You will have to answer to yourself in the end.
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  6. #76
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    My personal believe is that most people need religion because they're fearful/anxious. I was religious many years ago, because like @Marmie Dearest pointed out, my parents told me to be. I'm 95% sure that it's nonsense, but that 5 % is the fear that was instilled in me all throughout my life. My mother still can't believe that I'm not a "believer", even though she hasn't set foot in a Church in forever! She totally freaks out whenever I try and discuss religion with her. This is what pretty much goes on with nearly everyone I know. I did meet a woman recently who's an Atheist, which is really different, considering we live in the Bible Belt.

  7. #77
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    Everyone likes to feel secure (materialistic, psychological, physical, etc ), because security is happiness. Belief in God temporarily brings you this feeling of security. But the feeling is happiness (which is temporary) and not permanent (blissful).

    Bliss is also the ultimate security. The opposite of bliss is stress. So the answer for bliss is to get rid of stress.

    There is a huge deference between the two.

  8. #78
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Jennifer, can you discuss that in more detail? All of the variants of Christianity I'm aware of are pretty clear on their assertion that all the other variants are wrong and either will not be saved or will go to Hell, depending upon their belief system.

    How can you be an actual Christian (rather than simply a deist or pantheist who thinks Christ a.) probably existed and b.) was a good guy) and still believe that, say, a Buddhist will also be "saved"? Do you consider "salvation" synonymous with "enlightenment"?

    (Just a note: if this came across as an attack, it's not. I'm genuinely curious.)
    There are plenty of "watered down" forms of Christianity that no longer push hell, but believe that whoever is "good" will get to Heaven. Perhaps a lot of the old "mainliners". Even though the Creeds in the back of the pews might still teach particularism, in practice, a lot of that has fallen by the wayside.

    Then, you have people like Rob Bell, as was mentioned.

    There's also a view called Pantelism or Comprehensive Grace, which stems from Preterist eschatology, where all the prophecy of the Apocalypse (including the Return of Christ) and the abolition of spiritual death was fulfilled with the destruction of the Temple system in AD70, which represented the Law that condemned man to Hell in the first place. So Grace has spread to all, and is not contingent on believing the right things, so there is no longer any "true religion that must be believed in".
    This based on taking the Bible seriously, rather than watering it down.
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  9. #79
    I'm not Trunks
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    i've been raised by the background of christian parents. i go to church by the age of 9, my dad is pagan or buddhist. i stopped go to church for years now. Now, the only member of my family going to church is my mum and my oldest sister, me and other siblings have make our own path. i do believe in christianity but doesn't have heart to continue my faith, i dislike talk about religious things the most and i didn't like to read bible, however i respect others in their believes even i'm not at the same path with them.

  10. #80
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, we will now be able to see this acted out in reality, as the Egyptians, the Libyans, the Tunisians, the Iraqis, the Afgans have chosen to be Islamic States ruled by Islamic Law called Sharia.

    And Sharia, as you know, is not based on freedom and equality, but rather submission and inequality. And this is submission and inequality freely chosen as an act of faith in Allah.
    I have often seen belief in god to be a way for individuals within society to feel the protective comfort of submitting to a more dominant member of society in exchange for perceived protection, without having to suffer the loss of social status that would occur if that more dominant individual was actually another member of the social group. But submission means deference, even in spite of reality, thus intrusions upon one's protective reality cannot be tolerated.

    Internally I feel god could be described as love and transcends notions of religion-a continuum of humanity sees god as more than what is described above. Maybe god is something we have created through our own belief, the belief of billions. A perfect right triangle is an ideal that will never be seen, yet we can all agree on what that would look like, even though we can never reach it. Was the ideal of a right triangle real before someone came up with the idea? God may be the value based version of a right triangle..

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