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  1. #31
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    @Fluffywolf (what do I need to write to get that corect?)

    Yeah sure it is highly possible that that happens, The Matrix.

    "You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." -Morpheus

    It's so hard to say excactly what happens, when your in that state ordinary life seems like a dream and that is reality, its timeless and so much more real then you can ever imagine up. Doing it several times gives it a feeling of 'coming home from a long trip' and I mean the tripping experience not the coming down. You feel like "yeah I'm back home Baby!".

    However is it real? is this real? its like Morpheus says "What is real? is it what you can see taste and feel, then reality is just electrical impulses interpreted by the brain"

    I don't know my basic pragmatic conclusion is basically that of a video game. I find myself in different Matrixes with diffrent rules and laws, some can be broken and some you can get around. During the time I spend in this matrix I have certain rules that I follow and I play the game until it ends.

    Hopefully after I'm done with this game there will be another, now I have some anecdotal evidence that it might be other games waiting for me but I cant be sure. This way however im more prepared for a shift in consciousness. I'm more prepared to deal with psychadelic experiences cause, its just a game!

    Many people get scared shitless of the intensity and I do aswell but I remind myself "its just a game, dont panic, you have been here before you know what to do". Offcource sometimes you encounter new scenarios but there mostly alike but like Aldous Huxley wrote, "dont panic".

    As far as having no knowledge I don't really think that matters when it comes to DMT, apart from most psychedelics its not Setting sensitive, meaning that what your conscious state is and what is around you at the moment wont influence it as much as say acid or psilocybin.

    Knowing that Dr Straussman said to every subject that they should prepare to die cause its that an intense experience.

    That where some random Ne thoughts let get to the Ti of your post :P

    Sure theres a lot of similarities that could attribute these people to actually visiting the same place, that they are awakening into the matrix thru the red pill. However it could simply be the neuroplastic setup of the human brain that causes nerons to fire in a specific way which makes thes experiences very similar. It is really hard to say which one is happening and to prove any metaphysical phenomen i dont know where one would start. You could measure the brain activity and show that "neurons fire in X way and that gives Y experience" even so it dosent disprove that its part of a program running.

    I always say that what happens to the subject is real to them. What one experiences on a psychedelic drug is as real as what happens know, that experience becomes part of who they are even if it is not observable from an objective standpoint.

    I remember at least one account from Dr Straussmans experiment in which an older lady said it was not at all what shee expected to see, she thaught there would be fairys and elves, witch sounds more of psilocybin alike to me. And she did see aliens. But yeah if you could get a test group and make sure they havent read these accounts it would count for something but still its at best circumstantial evidence. As a final note most people have never heard about DMT so i think there are little if any preconception about it.

  2. #32
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    I think death is completely irrelevant as it is something that no living being can experience in any way. Fear of death seems to stem from some underlying notion that death, when judged from the perspective of a conscious living being, is some unnatural state of being, whereas it is in truth no state at all; there is life and at some point that life ends, what comes afterwards is completely disconnected from what was before.
    Death is not a personal experience, it's a term that others use to describe your life coming to an end or the fact that you are no longer alive.

  3. #33
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    ^See my post. See the drug not as a drug, but as a stimulant that makes the psyche wake up.

    I don't believe in it though, but I can see where he comes from when he says he beliefs there can be more to it.
    So is estrogen a chemical that awakens our inner woman, testosterone our inner man, serotonin our inner woman who recently gave birth, chloroform our inner sleepyhead, etc.?
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Myrtle, how would demonstration that a chemical compound is responsible for causing people to believe they've had spiritual experiences in favor of the existence of a spiritual realm?
    I dont, but its a option. And even soo it dosent take away from the spirituality, Im not trying to bring down these people telling them "ohh it was just a chemical compound".

    On the contrary I think it can be a chemical compound that is responsible for transmitting their spirit to another realm, or not. Now proving that (or rather according to Poppler disprove it) thats an interesting task.

  5. #35
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    So is estrogen a chemical that awakens our inner woman, testosterone our inner man, serotonin our inner woman who recently gave birth, chloroform our inner sleepyhead, etc.?
    Not that I feel I need to defend that philosophy to you as it isn't even a philosophy I support myself, but I was just intuitively meddling around with the idea. >.>


    It doesn't take away that your post really does nothing to refute it either. If DMT triggers a very specific part of the brain that natually has that same drug who according to Dr Straussman apparantly produces large amounts of the drug at birth and death. Pondering the question about why this natural phenomenon exists in the first place and for what purpose. That said, your arguement of saying DMT is a drug that behaves like any other drug, therefor if DMT does that, others must bbehave like that aswell. is rather short-sighted.

    You don't believe there is more to it? Fine, me too. But why are you trying to refute it with faulty arguements that don't say a thing about the actual philosophy? :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    So is estrogen a chemical that awakens our inner woman, testosterone our inner man, serotonin our inner woman who recently gave birth, chloroform our inner sleepyhead, etc.?
    Well as far as metaphysics go people are free to believe anything cause its hard to prove. However you bring up an interesting point.

    Yes why would the universe be limited to merely what the human experience is? I mean as far as I've studied human beings where machines with certain input and output functions and some data systems to derrive rules and laws witch conduct our next output.

    However these systems are very limited as to the spectra they can perceive and output information at the same time the machine is stuck in three dimensions forced to travel a set path on a 4th. Now claiming that we can now shit outside of this is tantamount to ludacris so each and everyone is free to believe whatever they like. or to believe there is nothing more to it. I have certain experiences that makes me believe that there is more to it, what I do not know...

  7. #37
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    My point is that chemical compounds having effects on the human brain (even compounds that exist naturally in lower doses within the body and brain) is hardly something specific to DMT, so why accord it special status on the basis of how human beings subjectively experience its effects?
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  8. #38
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    My point is that chemical compounds having effects on the human brain (even compounds that exist naturally in lower doses within the body and brain) is hardly something specific to DMT, so why accord it special status on the basis of how human beings subjectively experience its effects?
    Because it seems directly linked to the birth and the death of the psyche/identity, hypothetically releasing high dosage of it naturally upon both birth and death(as per @Myrtle's post). Which probably means nothing, but was enough for me to at least consider the idea from a philosophical point of view.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #39
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    I like Oenomaus'(from the tv serie Spartacus) speech about fear of death:
    (warning: cuss words)

    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    My point is that chemical compounds having effects on the human brain (even compounds that exist naturally in lower doses within the body and brain) is hardly something specific to DMT, so why accord it special status on the basis of how human beings subjectively experience its effects?
    Well we accord meaning to a lot of subjective things. But im not arguing it from a physical standpoint and Im not really trying to make you believe it.

    Im arguing from a metaphysical and philosophy standpoint.

    But its like Fluffywolf said I said, its suggested my some scientist that it enters and leaves the body at death and before birth. That makes it interesting in a 'soul' standpoint.

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