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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I am suggesting that there does exist an objective reality and part of that objective reality is objective good and evil, they are no more inventions or subjective judgements than the physical laws you mention.
    I think I see where we got off track. Terminology notwithstanding (I will switch to yours from here on for the sake of clarity), I think we more or less agree. I agree that there is an objective way to determine if a thing is good or evil. I just went a step further and defined parameters on which I believe objective measurement might be based, those parameters being how harmful/benefitial a thing is.

    Of course, if you believe that there is a more appropriate way to determine if something is good or evil, then I would be happy to hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Personally I find a lot of the secularist, atheistic and liberal opinions I read on this forum to be what I would consider "younger" thinking.
    Ad hominems make baby Jesus cry.

  2. #72
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Default Posts Moved

    Mod Note:

    OT chain moved here.

    Please respect the topic of the thread and the OP by staying on track.

    Thanks.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  3. #73
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Gotta go with Christian tradition on this one. Pride is the greatest evil, because it provides the basis upon which almost all other kinds of evil originate: the belief that you, individually, are of greater worth than another person, or even another living thing.

  4. #74
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I am suggesting that there does exist an objective reality and part of that objective reality is objective good and evil, they are no more inventions or subjective judgements than the physical laws you mention.

    Personally I find a lot of the secularist, atheistic and liberal opinions I read on this forum to be what I would consider "younger" thinking.
    I agree to an extent, however I think that viewing the world as an atheist is very useful. thoughts are not good or bad, just like feelings, only suited to particular kinds of tasks. I think it is not always useful to talk of absolute morality or God to people who have been hurt by others who have identified themselves with similar words in the past.

    I think moving beyond that requires reconciliation.. on both sides.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6ZWlDks0nQ"]Coldplay - Paradise [/YOUTUBE]
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  5. #75
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    Bringing kids into the world when you shouldn't, and not providing as a parent like you should.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Turtledove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeitlikethat View Post
    TBH, My then G/F got me the job; she worked there, went up to her boss 'and since she is just like Wow 'Future Prime Minister Material' and said
    "You see that boy there?"
    Pointing at me,
    "can he have a job please?"
    They saw me, I passed the interview and they hired me.
    She lived in North London, I'm in South, the commute was 24 miles or something stupid like that and, I use public transport; I used her address when getting the job, or my own, but said I'd be staying with her because she lived much closer. I was fired from that job, I was fired for being late too many times in row, I had a 6 hour commute (there and home), I was only there for over a month, if that.
    Oh wow, I'm sorry to here about that. It's difficult to have a long distance job to go here and yonder to work. I know people who do do that and don't know how they can.
    Save Thundercats 2011 petition. Because we do what we can. HO!!!:
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  7. #77
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    I think I see where we got off track. Terminology notwithstanding (I will switch to yours from here on for the sake of clarity), I think we more or less agree. I agree that there is an objective way to determine if a thing is good or evil. I just went a step further and defined parameters on which I believe objective measurement might be based, those parameters being how harmful/benefitial a thing is.

    Of course, if you believe that there is a more appropriate way to determine if something is good or evil, then I would be happy to hear it.



    Ad hominems make baby Jesus cry.
    There wasnt any ad hominems.

    Better way to define good and evil? Good and evil are the definitions and can not be "bettered", I know that a lot of hipster Nietzsche readers arent too hot on the idea but in time either experience or discovering some other author, like Chesterton for instance, makes Nietzsche seem less novel.

    Plus I guess growing up just makes it easier to make judgements.

  8. #78
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I agree to an extent, however I think that viewing the world as an atheist is very useful. thoughts are not good or bad, just like feelings, only suited to particular kinds of tasks. I think it is not always useful to talk of absolute morality or God to people who have been hurt by others who have identified themselves with similar words in the past.

    I think moving beyond that requires reconciliation.. on both sides.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6ZWlDks0nQ"]Coldplay - Paradise [/YOUTUBE]
    I'm sorry, there's things you just said that are ridiculous, even by your own lights.

    Why is it useful to approach things from an atheist perspective and why is it automatically speaking of God and morality which is insensitive?

    Lets look at what atheism and amorality gave us, slavery, communism, nazism, fascism, that's not a great record, so it becomes impossible by your own standard to consider things things from the conceptual stand point you consider objectively correct to do so.

    The reality that concepts are abused aswell as used does not invalidate the same concepts altogether, its like applying the worst rationalisations from debates about gun control to language and theory.

    Now I know what you wrote was ENTIRELY well meant, though THINK, THINK HARD, go on try it!!

  9. #79
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Better way to define good and evil? Good and evil are the definitions and can not be "bettered", I know that a lot of hipster Nietzsche readers arent too hot on the idea but in time either experience or discovering some other author, like Chesterton for instance, makes Nietzsche seem less novel.

    Plus I guess growing up just makes it easier to make judgements.
    You believe good and evil are not merely human concepts? If so, how do you know?

  10. #80
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I don't believe there is any such thing as 'evil' beyond humanity and human deeds. There is no free-floating, nefarious force in the universe, no evil spirits, no evil in nature, no 'objective evil'. That's a childish perspective, a duality driven by splitting, which is itself driven from a lack of clear perspective.

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