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  1. #91
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    And it seems so, so hackneyed and cliched to state such things, the crimes and horror associated with the crusades or other aspects of the era in which religion had hegemony are exaggerated.

    Exaggerated by generations of opposition frequently requiring a menace in which to rally their own support or supporters or animate their movements, I'm not talking about communist atheism but all sorts of atheism from the time of the enlightenment and predating it with the humanism of the rennaisance which was Godless (the was an alternative to the Godless humanism, if you ever get a chance to read the books from that time prefaced by intros by Russell Kirk you'll get an idea).

    I would suggest that the pharoahs issue is the same as dictatorship and economic planning, its the conflating to two ideas which dont necessarily go together and the obvious abuse of a concept, in one instance religious beliefs and the other planning, by elites to exploit it.

    Intergenerational conflict has inhibited the transmission of truth or memory of what the reality of the crusades or other events treated critically by the irreligious or anti-religious too.
    I would agree with you. To me, both sides have bitter animosity toward the other. To me, it is more useful to focus on integration in the present than the pain of the past. Spirituality has many great gifts including altruism, generosity, kindness, love, etc. Believe it or not, there are many atheists who have similar gifts. Perhaps you've yet to encounter them.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I would agree with you. To me, both sides have bitter animosity toward the other. To me, it is more useful to focus on integration in the present than the pain of the past. Spirituality has many great gifts including altruism, generosity, kindness, love, etc. Believe it or not, there are many atheists who have similar gifts. Perhaps you've yet to encounter them.
    I'm not antagonistic towards atheism, although we're a very, very long way from it being treated as it deserves or even as religion and religosity has been treated.

  3. #93
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not antagonistic towards atheism, although we're a very, very long way from it being treated as it deserves or even as religion and religosity has been treated.
    I agree. I think people are so antagonistic to religion because it is largely seen as anti-science and also because atheists tend to be in the minority in general. People who are members of a communitt in which they are the minority tend to exaggerate the differences between themselves and the group. Like thegteatone and his sex threads, elfboy and his over the top ideas, speed gavroche and his libertarianism, etc etc. This happens a lot irl too.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I agree. I think people are so antagonistic to religion because it is largely seen as anti-science and also because atheists tend to be in the minority in general. People who are members of a communitt in which they are the minority tend to exaggerate the differences between themselves and the group. Like thegteatone and his sex threads, elfboy and his over the top ideas, speed gavroche and his libertarianism, etc etc. This happens a lot irl too.
    The difference is that while atheism may imagine its a minority it isnt, its pervasive, pulling all the levers of government and pretty normative into the bargain.

    I think that the vociferous and vocal evangelists and theocons which atheists believe are the majority they are resisting are a sign of religion and religiosity's weakness and waning status.

    Being the unacknowledged or unconscious cultural rudder is a bad thing.

  5. #95
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The difference is that while atheism may imagine its a minority it isnt, its pervasive, pulling all the levers of government and pretty normative into the bargain.

    I think that the vociferous and vocal evangelists and theocons which atheists believe are the majority they are resisting are a sign of religion and religiosity's weakness and waning status.

    Being the unacknowledged or unconscious cultural rudder is a bad thing.
    Yeah, I hear you a bit. Power and materialism often go hand in hand. Atheism is often "material" as well, but there is a big difference between a scientist and a politician. There are many "prosperity gospel" type religious people as well.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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