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  1. #21
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Ah okay, I did not mean to define you. Perhaps I am different, I don't know. I just think that waiting for entropic forces to make life unsustainable is a sad and depressing fate. I think it is more advantageous to believe that something else may be possible and make it happen.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Ah okay, I did not mean to define you. Perhaps I am different, I don't know. I just think that waiting for entropic forces to make life unsustainable is a sad and depressing fate. I think it is more advantageous to believe that something else may be possible and make it happen.
    I'm not sure why you see the two as contradictory, or that believing that entropic forces are in place necessarily means you're just sitting around waiting to die. It actually gives you impetus to invest and do more.

    I think a person's choice in the matter defines them. For example, if someone gets terminal cancer, they either think, "I'm going to die, there's no point in doing anything, I might as well lay here and die," or they say, "I'm going to die, so there is nothing stopping me from trying ANYTHING that I want to try now, and I don't have to avoid risk since I'm going to die anyway." See how the second attitude is liberated BECAUSE of embracing the reality of death? And the reality is that we're all going to die anyway at some point, so why waste so much of one's life being afraid, hiding from risk, not taking chances, just to preserve a life that will eventually end? To get cliche for a moment, "every man dies; not every man really lives."

    The choice someone makes defines their character. Whether the universe is entropic or not has no bearing on how we choose to face our fate.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    We could possibly avoid death one day. I believe your attitude legitimizes death because we've always had to accept it in the past. It's never been a choice.

    I believe thinking that way feels a bit like giving up and laying down to die. Giving up a part of your soul.

    I agree with you 100% on the last little bit. My role as I've always believed is fight until you can't.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #24
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    All I can say on this subject was when I had a fatal asthma attack at the age of 13 which resulted in a respiratory arrest and my heart stopping for a few seconds, the process was like this:

    • Breathing heavily in car
    • Thrashing around for air at the last moments
    • blackness


    There was no worry about dying, just that primal instinct to survive, but when I collapsed I did not remember it happening, nor was it something I could put time to. I was awake and then I wasn't. I was not aware of the actual point of unconsciousness.

    What I do know is that after I awoke, I had not seen bright lights, I did not hear voices and all in all it really was just nothing times infinity. But you are not aware of it, you are not consciously thinking about it. There is no knowledge or cognition, there is just nothing and frankly if death is going to be like that I dont think id mind it at all.

    Light switch on....light switch off.

    Although I do get this strange uncomfortable feeling in my gut if I try to remember the blackness.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    We could possibly avoid death one day.
    Seriously?

    I believe your attitude legitimizes death because we've always had to accept it in the past. It's never been a choice.
    I seriously don't believe we will be able to live forever some day.
    I just don't think it's possible, from my understanding of medicine.

    I do think we can live longer due to figuring out how the "cell death mechanism" works, sure.
    Or maybe we can start growing and harvesting organs.

    But the body still ages and wears out and gets old.
    And we'll have overpopulation issues that can't be dodged (both spatial issues and resource issues).
    And just maybe, not everyone WANTS to live forever?

    I believe thinking that way feels a bit like giving up and laying down to die. Giving up a part of your soul.
    Okay, I can see why you are responding as you are, if that is how you perceive it.

    On the contary, though, I believe it is death and finality that gives human life meaning.

    Look at what human beings have done any time that death and health issues and whatever else has not been an issue. Look at the United States. Are we happier? Or are we more prone to mental illness? Are we more productive with our extra time, or do we just piss away feeling like, "Oh, I'll just get to that tomorrow"?

    The problem is not our mortality, it's human beings. We excel at making ourselves more miserable, the more things that are available to us. It's those who are embracing their mortality that actually burn more brightly and do important things and lead the way for the numbed masses.

    human beings really stink in a structureless world, tbh. We just can't deal or function at our best.

    I agree with you 100% on the last little bit. My role as I've always believed is fight until you can't.
    Just because you embrace your mortality doesn't mean you are not a fighter. Anyone who knows anything about me knows how much of a fighter / endurance runner I am in how I live my life... and I'm more of a fighter now, rather than less.

    You have some really unnecessary binaries set up in your head, from what you have described of your philosophy here. I think you are putting unnecessary definitions and limits on things.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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