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Tolerance as the Ironically Oppressive Value System

Thalassa

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Tolerance is very popular, even mandatory, in our society today. Of course up unto a point that is good, because it means that people of varying races, sexual orientations, religious creeds and life philosophies are free to live without persecution (or in theory should be).

On the other hand, tolerance has, in my opinion, invaded discussions of ideas and values to the point where a person seen as having formed a strong value judgment about a particular issue or philosophy is scorned for being hateful or closed-minded, when in truth that person may have examined that issue or idea thoroughly before sincerely deciding that they could not abide it with their value system.

It's almost reached a point with some people where it seems like an absurd trend toward anyone holding ANY VALUE JUDGMENTS at all that violate almighty "tolerance" is eschewed and, ironically, judged with the same moral or ethical fervency of the person holding the value.

Maybe I notice this especially being a person with strong Fi development, because in my world, my value judgments are what make me...me. ExxJs and IxxPs are kind of annoying that way. The primary difference, of course, is that IRL rather than the Internet, I keep the majority of my value judgments to myself unless they are violated (thereby often appearing externally placid or easy to get along with as long as you leave me alone and/or give me my space), as where I discuss them openly and passionately in written form, because the difference I see on the Internet or in writing, is that you can choose to ignore me at any time, I'm not actually pushing my values on you, because it's the Internet, you can disengage if you so choose.

I've just noticed this trend, and not just with Feeling types who value Tolerance Above All Else, but also with Thinking types who get pissed that you hold a strong value judgment about something they may like or enjoy.

I just think this trend toward over-tolerance is unhealthy. There's a difference between being open-minded enough to live and let live, and being so open-minded that you become malleable, stupid, or accepting of things to the point of passivity.

This of course isn't a comprehensive post, but it's something I've thought about A LOT in recent months.
 

Munchies

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RASCISM AGAINST RASCISM.


The problem is hate, people will always find something to hate in par to their value system. Usually people's value systems are a collective conciousness; meaning they are not conscious at all and just follow the consensus of what is normal, in many intellectual cases, since most people have closed minded intelectualism, they do not peer far outside the box. It was normal to hate black people not long ago.Did people really evolve that much in the past 80 years, or are we still capable of the same irrational hate? Yes, yes we are
 

UniqueMixture

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Perhaps it is better to focus on values that are positive and affirming rather than those that are negative and tell people what they cannot or should not do. There is more than one way to skin a.. life lol.
 

Cellmold

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I made a far too long post about the nature of the mindset behind this. Not sure if I want to bore people with it though.
 

Lark

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Interesting.

Resonates yes, although I would say that most of the people who state an aversion to judgement or opinions in favour of tolerance are often just unconscious of how judgemental they are, its often the "wrong sort" of judgement they're opposed to as opposed to judgements per se.
 

Thalassa

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Perhaps it is better to focus on values that are positive and affirming rather than those that are negative and tell people what they cannot or should not do. There is more than one way to skin a.. life lol.

focusing only on positive values is intellectually dishonest and morally weak
 

UniqueMixture

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My philosophy is more along the lines of "find the people who want the same things out of life that you do and do not fret over the things in life outside of your control."

You are still of the belief that there is a "right" way to live for all people? Good luck with that. I hope it brings you peace.
 

Mia.

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Tolerance is very popular, even mandatory, in our society today. Of course up unto a point that is good, because it means that people of varying races, sexual orientations, religious creeds and life philosophies are free to live without persecution (or in theory should be).

On the other hand, tolerance has, in my opinion, invaded discussions of ideas and values to the point where a person seen as having formed a strong value judgment about a particular issue or philosophy is scorned for being hateful or closed-minded, when in truth that person may have examined that issue or idea thoroughly before sincerely deciding that they could not abide it with their value system.

It's almost reached a point with some people where it seems like an absurd trend toward anyone holding ANY VALUE JUDGMENTS at all that violate almighty "tolerance" is eschewed and, ironically, judged with the same moral or ethical fervency of the person holding the value.

Maybe I notice this especially being a person with strong Fi development, because in my world, my value judgments are what make me...me. ExxJs and IxxPs are kind of annoying that way. The primary difference, of course, is that IRL rather than the Internet, I keep the majority of my value judgments to myself unless they are violated (thereby often appearing externally placid or easy to get along with as long as you leave me alone and/or give me my space), as where I discuss them openly and passionately in written form, because the difference I see on the Internet or in writing, is that you can choose to ignore me at any time, I'm not actually pushing my values on you, because it's the Internet, you can disengage if you so choose.

I've just noticed this trend, and not just with Feeling types who value Tolerance Above All Else, but also with Thinking types who get pissed that you hold a strong value judgment about something they may like or enjoy.

I just think this trend toward over-tolerance is unhealthy. There's a difference between being open-minded enough to live and let live, and being so open-minded that you become malleable, stupid, or accepting of things to the point of passivity.

This of course isn't a comprehensive post, but it's something I've thought about A LOT in recent months.

It's obvious we need to send you to compliance, er, I mean, sensitivity training Marmie.

:D

 

Totenkindly

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As described, that's not necessarily an issue of the promotion of hyper-tolerance, it could just be an individual with no real sense of how to express their values in a way that doesn't spew and disrupt all the other conversations going on around them.

People are going to hold value judgments. Heck, I have value judgments of my own. The trick is in sensing how when and how strongly one can express them without being self-indulgent about them.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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To the OP: Yeah. Illustrated by the latest Obama debacle.

:shock:






i.e. You can't have it both ways. :)
 

Aquarelle

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I've always found it annoying that liberals claim to be so tolerant, but are ironically notoriously intolerant of conservatives.

I am a liberal, but as long as people aren't harming anyone, I try to live and let live.
 

INA

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Dontcha know. At the heart of every liberal beats a fascist. I even got a few to admit this. They don't just want outward compliance, either. You WILL believe and feel appropriately or else.

[tosses in blowtorch + awaits indignation]
 

Thalassa

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My philosophy is more along the lines of "find the people who want the same things out of life that you do and do not fret over the things in life outside of your control."

You are still of the belief that there is a "right" way to live for all people? Good luck with that. I hope it brings you peace.

No. Not at all. And this is exactly what I'm talking about - if you're not a pacifist, you must be a fascist. Extremist thinking. Very simplistic.
 

Thalassa

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Dontcha know. At the heart of every liberal beats a fascist. I even got a few to admit this. They don't just want outward compliance, either. You WILL believe and feel appropriately or else.

[tosses in blowtorch + awaits indignation]

Yes, there is such a thing as liberal fascism, even officially, it's not a made up idea.
 

Thalassa

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As described, that's not necessarily an issue of the promotion of hyper-tolerance, it could just be an individual with no real sense of how to express their values in a way that doesn't spew and disrupt all the other conversations going on around them.

People are going to hold value judgments. Heck, I have value judgments of my own. The trick is in sensing how when and how strongly one can express them without being self-indulgent about them.

Could you Fe a little bit louder?
 

Thalassa

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Lol question marks indicate questions :)

"Good luck with that. I hope it brings you peace" is a statement that implies that the question before it was rhetorical.

There are an alarming number of passive aggressive people in denial who recant when caught.
 

Rasofy

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Providing the person isn't being self-righteous about it, I'm willing to hear (and consider) pretty much any opinion.

*This post is not a passive-agressive remark. Thanks.
 

Lexicon

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As described, that's not necessarily an issue of the promotion of hyper-tolerance, it could just be an individual with no real sense of how to express their values in a way that doesn't spew and disrupt all the other conversations going on around them.

People are going to hold value judgments. Heck, I have value judgments of my own. The trick is in sensing how when and how strongly one can express them without being self-indulgent about them.

^This is what I tend to notice often, when watching people interact/debate, and this type of issue arises... some people are more adept at conveying their ideas in the moment, with whatever emotional kneejerk internal reactions are going on in the background, and some will blurt out whatever jumble of phrases that color their flash of indignance. Usually, if I ask questions after something like that, or spend more time discussing the topic, I can get a better idea of how they perceive what they were referring to, and strengthen the communication so even opposing ideas can be shared and on some level, willfully respected on both sides..

this isn't a universal observation, though. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who can be deliberately obtuse.
 
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