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  1. #81
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    As human beings, we're biologically inclined to make judgments, no matter what our type is, or who we are. We categorize things, and people, in order to remember and understand them better. Some people do this without even thinking about it. Some people probably secretly feel badly for doing it.

    Much of stereotyping is simply due to environmental factors.

    If you were raised from childhood in a nude tribe, you would naturally adapt. These individuals wouldn't leer at women, or even think twice about it. Then, let's take one of the female teenagers from one of these tribes, and place them in an American classroom. Of course, she comes to class topless.

    Chaos!

    The teacher would take action and make sure that the perpetrator was clothed immediately. The 'perpetrator' wouldn't understand why they were being clothed. They would attempt to remove the clothing, and be reprimanded. When explained why, they might not understand. ''Modesty? What is modesty? Why do I have to put this on? It itches, I don't understand.'' The teacher is frustrated, but adamant. Maybe she comes to class with holes cut out of her top the next day. But, eventually, she changes, and comes to have a superficial understanding of it.

    People are naturally self-absorbed and intolerant. Often, when judgments are made on a cultural basis, they are emotionally biased judgments. Thinking about why you know what you know is necessary.

    I myself am biased, because I go through life adapting. Where I stand will change based upon new information, new environments and new understanding.

    I don't even think of the word, ''tolerant'' in an everyday context anymore. In every new situation, I think: ''Does it make sense?'' And, ''What do I need to do to understand this?''

    Categorizing a group of individuals based upon appearance doesn't make sense. Each one is different, has different ideas, knowledge and a different perspective and environment that they have adapted out of.

    Being cautious based upon preliminary data does make sense, but information when it comes to people is often unpredictable. That's why it's important to look at it on a case-by-case basis. Critical thinking.

  2. #82
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Take what back a notch or two? Don't personally engage me about my behavior when I'm not talking to you.
    Why the tone? It was meant with the best of intentions, as I was interested in the topic, and interested in what you had to say, without your histrionics, which were threatening drown out the debate.

    Don't bother replying to this, I have you on ignore as you are primed for a fight. It's shame because you are good value when you don't have that huge chip on your shoulder.

    At least you are entertaining in this mood, I'll give that.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #83
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yes, it's the hypocrisy that bugs me, the irony of it all, that "tolerance" has become the "right" thing to believe instead of "man and woman only should be married" or "blacks and whites should stay apart." It sounds good on the surface, that "tolerance" has become the "right" but the fact is that underneath this facade of "tolerance" is still intolerance toward things they don't agree with . . .
    Tolerance does not mean changing your personal beliefs. It does mean coexisting peacefully with people whose beliefs are different. In other words, treating the gay couple next door with courtesy and fairness even if you disagree with gay unions. We cannot legislate or force our beliefs on others, we can only place requirements on actions. Sometimes beliefs follow actions, as when someone comes to see gay relationships in a different light after gaining more direct experience with gay couples. This can only evolve on its own, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I also, think, for example, that private institutions should be allowed to make their own rules, within reason - like religious institutions shouldn't be mandated by the government to do this or that that violates their religion, like for example a Christian school shouldn't be expected to run with the same specifications as a public school in terms of whom they hire and what they tolerate.

    There of course has to be a basic framework for what is unacceptable (murder, rape, child abuse, etc.) but I think private interests should be allowed to maintain their own morality, as long as belonging to that private interest is voluntary.
    In principle I agree. The sticking point is just how far this basic framework reaches. What laws must the private institutions hold to? Child labor restrictions? No racial/gender/nationality/gay discrimination? OSHA safety rules? Building codes? Must they pay minimum wage, or even deduct taxes/FICA contributions? Especially when it comes to religious organizations, it is no longer just a clash of cultures or worldviews, but runs into the separation of church and state. We have had some discussions about French Muslims, for instance. Just as they must find a way to express their culture within the framework of French laws, U.S. Christians must stay within U.S. laws. The distinction becomes especially blurred when a private, often a religious, organization is in the position of providing a public service, as through Pres Bush's "Faith-based initiative".

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    So, basically, while rejecting relativism, you favor the mosaic model over the "melting pot" one?
    So do I. In the melting pot, every constituent part loses its individual identity, and the whole becomes some homogeneous substance. In the mosaic, each piece is identifiable as an individual, but notice: each must be cut sometimes to fit into a good place in the overall design. Hence the compromise of surrendering or revising some parts of your culture (e.g. learning a new language) while retaining others (preferences in food, home decor, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    In this case, tolerance is a means to an end, not the end itself. That's the problem with the term, and I think that's the point of this thread; that tolerance in and of itself is too slippery a concept to serve as a normative value by which to evaluate specific behaviors, and when it is used that way, it becomes a (frankly, rather despicable) topos. A rhetorical ploy.
    Yes, tolerance is a means, a practice, much like civility. A means can itself be an end, though. Consider literacy. Reading and writing are means of communication, enabling people to share and store information. For someone lacking this skill, literacy becomes a goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleeting View Post
    As human beings, we're biologically inclined to make judgments, no matter what our type is, or who we are. We categorize things, and people, in order to remember and understand them better. Some people do this without even thinking about it. Some people probably secretly feel badly for doing it.

    Much of stereotyping is simply due to environmental factors.

    If you were raised from childhood in a nude tribe, you would naturally adapt. These individuals wouldn't leer at women, or even think twice about it. Then, let's take one of the female teenagers from one of these tribes, and place them in an American classroom. Of course, she comes to class topless. Chaos!
    Did the girl assume she would be accepted as she was, or did she know she would be going against established custom? In short, did she fail to adapt out of ignorance, or choice? Conflicts like this arise as much from faulty assumption (that everyone will act like us) as from deliberate stubbornness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleeting View Post
    Being cautious based upon preliminary data does make sense, but information when it comes to people is often unpredictable. That's why it's important to look at it on a case-by-case basis. Critical thinking.
    If the nudist girl had landed in Alaska, it wouldn't have taken her long to figure out that clothing definitely makes sense. Social constraints can be much less compelling. I suppose we are back at Te vs. Fe judgment.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #84
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I'm surprised wonder boy and sunshine haven't fucked
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  5. #85
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I love all the people who can't seem to stop themselves from talking to or about me, even though I never in any way initiated the conversation.

    Something that I've found, interestingly, is that they're all male.
    What are your sources?
    (except for TG, and well, she has reasonable grounds as my worthy mortal frenemy)
    The comma before "and" should be placed after "and" and before "well".
    /english major

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The Knights knew it all along (that's why they kept saying Ni!)
    All I wanted was a damn shrubbery.

  7. #87
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    /English major
    Or you can make the comma after well into a semi-colon~!

    /English major
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  8. #88
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    All I wanted was a damn shrubbery.
    You should cut down a tree.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  9. #89

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    Some of us walk through the world alternating between beating our fists in frustration and observing the world to try and learn what we can from it.

    Many of us stubbornly or fearfully occupy one state of being far more than the other and marvel how little we learn or how little we live.

    Balance is good folks, and it is not a passionless existence.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post

    If the nudist girl had landed in Alaska, it wouldn't have taken her long to figure out that clothing definitely makes sense. Social constraints can be much less compelling. I suppose we are back at Te vs. Fe judgment.
    Yep. Depends on the environment.

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