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  1. #41
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I actually do believe in a type of moral relativity. It doesn't change the fact that my morals serve my own vision. In a perfect world, there is only one right vision. In an imperfect world there are several varying degrees of incompatible right visions. Either way, I know where I stand. In my vision, endless and cyclical banter on the internet achieves no good.

  2. #42
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    So basically you just want the freedom to be a debbie downer w/o being mocked?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    So basically you just want the freedom to be a debbie downer w/o being mocked?
    What are you talking about? I think you're a troll. That's not what I mean at all, I think this conversation may be a little over your head.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I actually do believe in a type of moral relativity. It doesn't change the fact that my morals serve my own vision. In a perfect world, there is only one right vision. In an imperfect world there are several varying degrees of incompatible right visions. Either way, I know where I stand. In my vision, endless and cyclical banter on the internet achieves no good.
    But the Internet is a microcosm of the greater world, and it reveals the mindset of "enforced tolerance" that is taking place, in varying Western nations - not just in terms of multi-culturalism taken to the extreme of insanity in some Western European countries, but the idea that even on discussion forums there may be a strong undertone of people using the term "closed-minded" in precisely the way @Orangey pointed out.

  5. #45
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Could you Fi a little bit softer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Who are you?
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #46
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    You said you wanted the freedom to express negative opinions in spite of how this may instigate others, yet you see no irony in complaining that others trod on on your feelings when this is done to you. Yeah, this is over MY head 9_9
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    You said you wanted the freedom to express negative opinions in spite of how this may instigate others, yet you see no irony in complaining that others trod on on your feelings when this is done to you. Yeah, this is over MY head 9_9
    No that's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm NOT talking about ME, SPECIFICALLY. I think you're having a hard time with that concept. Everyone should be allowed to express negative opinions. That's fine. People can express negative opinions all they like, and I'm not talking about people mocking other people...if anything, I'm talking about attempting to morally coerce people into shutting up and playing nice instead of honestly disagreeing. And disagreeing doesn't involve personal attacks.

    You're trying to turn this into a thread about personal attacks, in fact you started making them from your second post. In your first post, though, you were already playing "thought police" by saying that people should only express positive value judgements, so you indeed are part of this "tolerance" problem, especially after presuming someone who believes that being positive all the time is intellectually dishonest and morally weak is some kind of fascist that believes all people should be one way.

    You're not even discussing the idea, but me. I think the reason you can't discuss the idea, is because you support enforced tolerance. I mean, anyone who says "we should only say positive things" pretty much is part of the gold star club problem.

  8. #48
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    But the Internet is a microcosm of the greater world, and it reveals the mindset of "enforced tolerance" that is taking place, in varying Western nations - not just in terms of multi-culturalism taken to the extreme of insanity in some Western European countries, but the idea that even on discussion forums there may be a strong undertone of people using the term "closed-minded" in precisely the way @Orangey pointed out.
    I guess the only real 'enforcement' i see happening here is a kind of societal cold shoulder, or dismissal. If that's the worst of it, then I'd say it's a bearable form of oppression. As a Ne user, the most I can ask for is that everybody is able to get their say if they so choose to say it, and not be too strong armed around in if and how they choose to express themselves. I don't know if that fits within your oppressive tolerance parameters, or not.

    In rl, I get angry and active when things like that start interfering with my mode of living.. my way to feed myself and be myself. Multiculturalism hasn't gotten in my way, but I probably dont run in the right circles for it the affect me.

    Honestly, I don't understand any of how human nature and culture works in the big picture.. and I'm puzzled at those who claim they do. I'm incredulous at those who 'know' the absolute right now, I'm dubious about how anybody can predict how our approaches will affect the microcosm when we can barely guess what will happen to us on the street tomorrow, especially since the more I learn, the less I feel I understand. Culture is an ever changing animal, hopefully morphing towards our needs and sometimes taking monstrous forms in the process. And really, multiculturalism is really just a sham, it's just an effective foil to further specific interests, those pushing it will only be tolerant enough. I'm sure this is part of your problem with it, the hypocrisy.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    Marmie is TypoC's own Ayn Rand.
    Whoops.

  10. #50
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I guess the only real 'enforcement' i see happening here is a kind of societal cold shoulder, or dismissal. If that's the worst of it, then I'd say it's a bearable form of oppression. As a Ne user, the most I can ask for is that everybody is able to get their say if they so choose to say it, and not be too strong armed around in if and how they choose to express themselves. I don't know if that fits within your oppressive tolerance parameters, or not.

    In rl, I get angry and active when things like that start interfering with my mode of living.. my way to feed myself and be myself. Multiculturalism hasn't gotten in my way, but I probably dont run in the right circles for it the affect me.

    Honestly, I don't understand any of how human nature and culture works in the big picture.. and I'm puzzled at those who claim they do. I'm incredulous at those who 'know' the absolute right now, I'm dubious about how anybody can predict how our approaches will affect the microcosm when we can barely guess what will happen to us on the street tomorrow, especially since the more I learn, the less I feel I understand. Culture is an ever changing animal, hopefully morphing towards our needs and sometimes taking monstrous forms in the process. And really, multiculturalism is really just a sham, it's just an effective foil to further specific interests, those pushing it will only be tolerant enough. I'm sure this is part of your problem with it, the hypocrisy.
    It's them knowitall Ni freaks, they're the ones behind it.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

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