User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 26

  1. #11
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by man View Post
    is there such a thing as perfection in this world

    or is it only a concept
    Can even the concept of perfection be perfect ?
    Everybody has their own definition of perfect, so is there an essential perfection ? You d have to assume a set of traits etc. a direction where the end of the road is perfection. But everyone has different experiences etc so can we even say there are such roads or different roads leading to the same perfection?

    What if perfection is ''maxed out '' for everything at once to reach some kind of universal perfection: if something is everything at once it might as well be nothing. Structure is defined by differentials. Also mixing apple pie with beef and jello doesnt make it a good meal just because the parts are tasty independently.
    And can there be perfection in a world where things can even ''be'' maxed out ? What about a world where/when we could infinitely evolve and reach ''perfection in infinite time'' (only works with constant energy addition to the system with our physics)? Even then perfection would be a direction rather than a thing. Is a direction a thing? It is certainly a concept we form in our minds.

    In the end I doubt there can be perfection without the mind stating what perfection is, so it is ultimately a concept independently from how relevant the term is when applied to specific situations.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #12
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    One of my majority views (yeahyeah, I am legion and all that) is that Ideals such as Love, Nobility, Justice or Perfection (which is more of a quality than an ideal in itself, then again that would apply to all ideals in reality as u cant really point at them) etc. are cultural/conceptual vectors. Value creating and affirming devices moving with their times.

    People live in the short to mid range when it comes to time, we do not plan our Justice systems based on a masterplan unfolding into infinity.
    For example justice when seen in actuality is a concept we apply to justify the authority of human institutions meant to have a regulatory social function.

    So as part of culture these ideals are associated with sets of emotions, real and imagined situations and exist in a web of codependency. The current versions of ''justice'' stocked within the observers minds will ''taint'' the data collection and selection, this definition will then coevolve with the institutions. people and culture.

    So all in all its a tag we put on things, it doesnt evolve fast enough so that we ll call it something else but if you look at what people described as say chilvalrous in the middle ages it involved murder and rape, we then selected the material according to cultural bias, reinforcing/creating our own biases.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  3. #13
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,152

    Default

    Anything that leads to the result sought can be thought of as perfect (a version of it)...even if the result sought isn't in itself perfect.
    So, I think so.

  4. #14
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Perfection assumes a metric of judgment. Metrics of judgment are subjective dimensionality reductions that by definition throw out data.

    So, no.

  5. #15
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    BIRD
    Enneagram
    631 sp
    Posts
    3,266

    Default

    Perfect is a concept informed by our point of view, which is to say that it is subjective. Some worldviews, for instance many religions describe something or someone as having been or being absolutely perfect. (In the previous sentence, I mean 'absolute' in the sense that there is no room for a correct alternate interpretation.) In Christianity this is illustrated in God, Jesus, and heaven.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    MBTI
    MBTI
    Enneagram
    0w0
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Can even the concept of perfection be perfect ?
    Everybody has their own definition of perfect, so is there an essential perfection ? You d have to assume a set of traits etc. a direction where the end of the road is perfection. But everyone has different experiences etc so can we even say there are such roads or different roads leading to the same perfection?

    What if perfection is ''maxed out '' for everything at once to reach some kind of universal perfection: if something is everything at once it might as well be nothing. Structure is defined by differentials. Also mixing apple pie with beef and jello doesnt make it a good meal just because the parts are tasty independently.
    And can there be perfection in a world where things can even ''be'' maxed out ? What about a world where/when we could infinitely evolve and reach ''perfection in infinite time'' (only works with constant energy addition to the system with our physics)? Even then perfection would be a direction rather than a thing. Is a direction a thing? It is certainly a concept we form in our minds.

    In the end I doubt there can be perfection without the mind stating what perfection is, so it is ultimately a concept independently from how relevant the term is when applied to specific situations.
    lets see... perfection is..
    individual perception processed by internal judgment then applied to external perception so as to actualize the perfection.. hm, as long as delivery of the internally perfect perceived thing is possible to process outside, into something actual for the effects to take place exactly how it was perceived internally.. until the internal perception gains more data input, and realizes the previous image of perfection was insufficient..

    hmm..

    i consider a perfect stream of flawlessly flowing data inside and to the outside as perfect. achieving such requires a perfect understanding of my capabilities so as to know what is the maximum for me, thus the perfect. for example in art such as drawing, i have reached this state of perfecy where i love the results of my drawings and so does the data flow inwards, each time i learn something more of my internal mind thus creating consistent, perfect grow and perfect appreciation for my perfect art, thus i effectively create perfect to outside of my mind. however, people of different cognitive preferences are unlikely to value what i value in art and thus not consider it ultimately perfect.

    but yes, perfect is very much possible, as long as your image of perfection includes being realistic. which i am.

    thus perfection really is.. ability to appreciate and mallueb reality however you wish, as long as your perfect enough to know how you can achieve such. life is perfect to those who understand it. its nice to be ennea 4. with.. wing three, obviously <.<
    yes i consider it a possibility to reach the perfect state of understanding and growth, as long as you can maintain it. in from where the challenge comes.. life'd be boring without.

    without intelligence processing existence, it would just simply be, without something perceiving it intellectually. and as intelligent species we cant possibly imagine what unintelligent observation is, as we are intelligent even when in weirdest of dreams. and in some sense even more intelligent than at awake state.
    (i at least gain god like abilities every time i sleep, dont know about others. oh, yes god liek abilities buut.. uhm, lets just say, what a drunken god would be like, is what my dreams resemble.) i find the lack of realism assessing quite refreshing, might i add. my dreams are quite realistic, except when my memory fails and i actually consciously realize i forgot an aspect of my dream and whoops, the aspect is already replaced with tomething else, like carrying guns and suddenly.. um, you have a .. steam gun? O_O.. which boils down your enemy rather painfully.

    well, if i were god, id love to be drunken like that rather than bored without curiosity to satisfy.

    the perfect state for intelligence is between order and chaos, and nowhere else.
    and our biology agrees with my statement, if you study mind.
    in other words, living in a chaos you perfectly understand is what we should strive for. yet a chaos, which you cant predict.

    but yeah, if everyone reached that perfect state, no one would see point in competition for any other than purely for fun purpose as cooperation and self manipulation would be enough to make everyone survive as well as 100% happy.

    too bad reaching such a state takes a lifetime, and then you die! >=[..
    so unless you can make a perfect manual which others can study in a short time enough to reach perfection in their lives before reaching adulthood, which i actually consider very much possible.. just a hard task. but we are getting there, with evolution of scientific understanding, we can eventually apply it into practice with happiness/self understanding teaching in schools, and only after self understanding is reached do they actually choose their life path.

    but no, im certain the sensors in power are terribly phobic of their illusion coming apart just cause majority of them believe self understanding has to be done how it works for someone else.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,370

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Perfection assumes a metric of judgment. Metrics of judgment are subjective dimensionality reductions that by definition throw out data.

    So, no.
    ...well...saying no, answering the question, implies a metric of judgment as you've defined as subjective dimensionality in your premise. Ergo, your premise is implied in your answer, and negates its own validity.

    Quote Originally Posted by man View Post
    is there such a thing as perfection in this world

    or is it only a concept
    I never seem to be good at getting people to think about anything, but could you argue against the following reasoning? "To know what is perfect, one must know or have an idea of the imperfect, even if the idea of imperfection is or must be intuitive or evaluated unconsciously." (if you think you can, then I'm asking you too)

  8. #18
    sswwwaagggg gmanyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    275

    Default

    ummm yes there is a 'perfect' things, what if you draw a perfect circle?????? obviously its perfect how could it not be!!!!!!!! youre move idiot
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I'm starting to see you and your avatar as a cloud of odor that eminates from trashy threads.

  9. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gmanyo View Post
    ummm yes there is a 'perfect' things, what if you draw a perfect circle?????? obviously its perfect how could it not be!!!!!!!! youre move idiot
    What color would you draw it with? Judged by the color spectrum visible to humans or other entities? How fine lines would you use? Etc...

  10. #20
    Senior Member man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    IntP
    Enneagram
    =)
    Socionics
    =)
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gmanyo View Post
    ummm yes there is a 'perfect' things, what if you draw a perfect circle?????? obviously its perfect how could it not be!!!!!!!! youre move idiot
    circle is what im thinking of when i post this

    one can envision a perfect circle
    but it imposible to draw because of dat pi, u know??
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Similar Threads

  1. Triumph of the Mind
    By Zoom in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-22-2015, 09:44 AM
  2. Could God Exist Outside of Space Time?
    By Santosha in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 04-02-2011, 10:16 PM
  3. [NT] Power of the mind
    By yenom in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 09-24-2009, 06:48 AM
  4. The Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria of the mind
    By Thursday in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-22-2008, 01:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO