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Thread: Jesus

  1. #21
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So why do we worship someone who is morally and intellectually inferior?
    Obviously not for any rational reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    Flawed as he may be, Jesus achieved things that almost all of us never have or will.
    He was, allegedly, convicted, beaten, crucified and posthumously turned into the hero of a silly fairy tale. Nothing I want to achieve, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    His divinity may be questionable, his greatness is certain.
    No, his greatness is a dogma of a belief that is very questionable as whole.

  2. #22
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Although Jesus was surrounded by institutional slavery He said not one word against it.

    And although Jesus was surrounded by child, sexual abuse, he said not one word against it.

    And although Jesus was surrounded by non-emancipated women, he said not one word against it.

    And Jesus could not read and write. He believed the Earth was flat and the Sun went round the Earth. He had no idea the Earth was four and a half thousand million years old. He had no idea of natural selection acting for thousands of millions of years. And absolutely no idea that all life on Earth is part of the same DNA. He had no idea we are part of our galaxy, the Milky Way, consisting of as many as four hundred billion stars. And he had no idea there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in every direction we look, accelerating away from us. He had absolutely no idea of quantum mechanics or general relativity.

    Jesus believed demons caused mental and physical illness. And he believed magic could cure illness.
    Do you have evidence for any of this? We know something about the culture and customs of Jesus' day, but really very little about Jesus himself. I suspect most of what he actually said and did is now lost to us, or substantially redacted and packaged by the religious establishment that became organized Christianity.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Although Jesus was surrounded by institutional slavery He said not one word against it.

    And although Jesus was surrounded by child, sexual abuse, he said not one word against it.

    And although Jesus was surrounded by non-emancipated women, he said not one word against it.

    And Jesus could not read and write. He believed the Earth was flat and the Sun went round the Earth. He had no idea the Earth was four and a half thousand million years old. He had no idea of natural selection acting for thousands of millions of years. And absolutely no idea that all life on Earth is part of the same DNA. He had no idea we are part of our galaxy, the Milky Way, consisting of as many as four hundred billion stars. And he had no idea there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in every direction we look, accelerating away from us. He had absolutely no idea of quantum mechanics or general relativity.

    Jesus believed demons caused mental and physical illness. And he believed magic could cure illness.
    1. It says right in the gospels that he did and said many things not recorded in the gospels.

    “Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.” John 21:25

    2. Yes he did.

    “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.” 32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.” Mark 12:30-34

    All discernment on how to treat another human being can be distilled from getting those two commandments right and down deep in one’s spirit. Jesus said the law, prophets, and all the commandments rest and hang on these two principles. They encompass everything - every issue, every situation. They are the governing dynamics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And Jesus could not read and write. He believed the Earth was flat and the Sun went round the Earth. He had no idea the Earth was four and a half thousand million years old. He had no idea of natural selection acting for thousands of millions of years. And absolutely no idea that all life on Earth is part of the same DNA. He had no idea we are part of our galaxy, the Milky Way, consisting of as many as four hundred billion stars. And he had no idea there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in every direction we look, accelerating away from us. He had absolutely no idea of quantum mechanics or general relativity.

    Jesus believed demons caused mental and physical illness. And he believed magic could cure illness.
    3. I would encourage you to study your Bible. Ramifications of all of these scientific things are mentioned in the Bible if you study the original languages and make the connections, it’s just most people aren’t looking for them, even the vast majority of Christians. And Jesus studied (translation: read) and understood the scriptures like no other. Our minds would explode if we knew all he knew. A variety of things have led to obscuring these: man’s perversion called religion has outright opposed true understanding of the Bible’s contribution and relationship to science, lack of study and motivation on peoples’ part, as well as pretension, hostility, and bias among “intellectuals.”

    4. I dig you Victor.

  4. #24
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, institutional slavey and child rape and enchattelment were not a moral improvement on anything. They were simply the status quo.

    Anyway, how could anyone improve on child rape except by abolishing it? And how could anyone improve on slavery except by abolishing it?
    Did Jesus create these things? To me he was a tragic figure doing the best he could with the hand he was dealt.

    Edit: reread op
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Although Jesus was surrounded by institutional slavery He said not one word against it.

    And although Jesus was surrounded by child, sexual abuse, he said not one word against it.

    And although Jesus was surrounded by non-emancipated women, he said not one word against it.
    Wait is this the same Jesus who was such a fan of Love Others as Thyself?

    How do you know any of this? Where's your proof?

  6. #26
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    You'd wonder how institutional slavery had disappeared from much of Europe and how codes of chivalry softened patriarchy without violent revolutions and hate with, you know, Christendom being unopposed by bitter atheists.

  7. #27
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    PB to the J, you deleted your posts again!

  8. #28
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    To play devil's advocate here...
    We can't actually know everything Jesus said or believed. He didn't write any accounts of his life or his words, but others did. Mental and physical illnesses are represented as demonic possession in the accounts, so that part is correct. He did actually stand up for women's rights in his day from the examples of the woman who was going to be stoned for adultery, to the woman at the well who was a social outcast, to having women be the first to see his resurrection. He also stood up for children saying that they set the example for how people are to be and demonstrated that they should not be dismissed. The OP is creating a caricature rather than a balanced representation.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post

    He was, allegedly, convicted, beaten, crucified and posthumously turned into the hero of a silly fairy tale. Nothing I want to achieve, really.


    No, his greatness is a dogma of a belief that is very questionable as whole.
    I rarely stick up for Jesus but...

    Questionable as it may be, the beliefs that spurred from his life have been very influential to humanity...I'd argue his greatness lies in that fact rather than in the facts of his beliefs.

    At the end of the day most beliefs will prove themselves to be false.

    He was a hugely influential figure, and in my estimation, that makes questioning his greatness (as subjectively measured by influence, sure) flawed.

    Whether or not you want to follow in the same vein as him is another issue all together. I'd argue most people want to achieve their own version of greatness, and Jesus (assuming he wanted what ended up happening, I think he did), did so better than virtually anyone who ever lived, ever.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    I rarely stick up for Jesus but...

    Questionable as it may be, the beliefs that spurred from his life have been very influential to humanity...I'd argue his greatness lies in that fact rather than in the facts of his beliefs.

    At the end of the day most beliefs will prove themselves to be false.

    He was a hugely influential figure, and in my estimation, that makes questioning his greatness (as subjectively measured by influence, sure) flawed.

    Whether or not you want to follow in the same vein as him is another issue all together. I'd argue most people want to achieve their own version of greatness, and Jesus (assuming he wanted what ended up happening, I think he did), did so better than virtually anyone who ever lived, ever.
    Sometimes a Hitler comparison is really just the best answer one can give.

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