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Is the truth of something as important as its implications?

Lark

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Is something important because it is true or because of the implications or consequences of it being true? :happy2:
 

Oaky

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I believe the implications and consequences are more important than the fact in itself. An individual who lies to impress will not be an issue with me if it does not directly effect significantly within life. I take thought to choosing to believe and go with the lie if the person is generally good spirited. Always fun to hear the stories about a person running through a jungle and tackling 10 alligators before a helicopter picks him up as he was about to bring down a tiger. Lies demeaning upon others or selfish to the manifest desires of the individual are a bit more troubling. Not pleasant with how it more directly influences rapport, choices and situations.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I see Truth as a 'primary substance' if you will, that which comes before everything else.

The implication or consequences of Truth [or Untruth] are secondary attributes, and relative to certain circumstances.

The truth is not relative to anything else. It stands alone. Therefore it is more important.
 
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Is something important because it is true or because of the implications or consequences of it being true? :happy2:

I think it's an interesting question. I'm actually writing something right now that turns on just this question. I think that my answer would be the former, but I think there is definitely room for a conversation about relative importance.
 

Munchies

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=AphroditeGoneAwry;1833495 It stands alone. .

pff look at you. eating that apple. think you're all smart. all truth relies on other realities/truths to make it true so it doesnt stand alone HA



yes
 

Elfboy

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I believe the implications and consequences are more important than the fact in itself. An individual who lies to impress will not be an issue with me if it does not directly effect significantly within life. I take thought to choosing to believe and go with the lie if the person is generally good spirited. Always fun to hear the stories about a person running through a jungle and tackling 10 alligators before a helicopter picks him up as he was about to bring down a tiger. Lies demeaning upon others or selfish to the manifest desires of the individual are a bit more troubling. Not pleasant with how it more directly influences rapport, choices and situations.
agreed (classic Te answer btw)
 

Red Herring

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Is something important because it is true or because of the implications or consequences of it being true? :happy2:

Depends. Are you a Kantian? :D

My personal answer would be that I see a certain beauty (and thus value) in truth itself and would favor candor and honesty for reasons that go beyond the immediate impact: Society is based on cooperation. Cooperation requires an exchange of information and while we should always keep in the back of our mind that there is a chance the other person lies to us or unknowingly gives us false information, trust in the information we receive from others is at the very basis of that society and human interaction in general. Every lie is a little attack on the foundation of society and therefor, by extension, on humanity as a whole.

That being said, this does not justify being a jackass, for the same reasons I just mentioned - social cohesion :D

/baby Fe answer
 

Rel

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Depends on the subject matter. If we're concerning ourselves with morals then truth is irreverent and the consequences are what most would concern themselves with. Building a bridge on the other hand requires the most accurate description of reality as possible.

Should be said I prefer to move forward.
 

rav3n

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How often is there only one truth? Most often people believe in their perceptions of truth.

But factual, indisputable truth is beyond precious and beautiful, no matter how harsh. It's the holy grail of knowledge seekers.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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[MENTION=15580]Rel[/MENTION] Not necessarily most....just those adherers of consequentialism. :)


....and reality can belie the truth, depending on what one views as real.
 

Rel

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[MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] I suppose I can't objectively say most people only focus on the consequences, since it depends on the circumstances; however, when the situation revolves around an individual who partakes in something that is morally unacceptable, it is the gut reaction of most to ignore what lead to those actions and to tunnel-vision on the consequences.

I can't seem to imagine a scenario where the subjective truth of one individual completely undermines reality. It can influence action, but it can't change the past and the arrangement of all things up to this point.

Perhaps it's just where I'm sitting.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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[MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] I suppose I can't objectively say most people only focus on the consequences, since it depends on the circumstances; however, when the situation revolves around an individual who partakes in something that is morally unacceptable, it is the gut reaction of most to ignore what lead to those actions and to tunnel-vision on the consequences.

I can't seem to imagine a scenario where the subjective truth of one individual completely undermines reality. It can influence action, but it can't change the past and the arrangement of all things up to this point.

Yes, most probably would do that.

And I was just reading about an example today because another forum member mentioned Descartes' Meditations....and Descartes gave the example of a stick in water appears bent when it is, in fact, straight, etc. Reality can seem real, and therefore true, but we can be fooled by it, enough that I think reality is not necessarily a good marker for Truth.
 

Coriolis

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Is something important because it is true or because of the implications or consequences of it being true? :happy2:
The implications or consequences are more -- well, consequential -- but will be different if they stem from something untrue. As a crude analogy: which is more important, the fact that I have edible food in my house, or the consequence of being able to use it to satisfy my hunger and feed me for the day? If the first part of the statement is not true (item is not food, or food is inedible), then the stated consequence cannot come to pass. So, the one implies or determines the other.

And I was just reading about an example today because another forum member mentioned Descartes' Meditations....and Descartes gave the example of a stick in water appears bent when it is, in fact, straight, etc. Reality can seem real, and therefore true, but we can be fooled by it, enough that I think reality is not necessarily a good marker for Truth.
The stick may NOT in fact be bent, but the image IS, due to the difference in refractive index between water and air. Thus both statements are true, though we must apply each to its proper subject. Much "untruth" comes from confusion as to what we are really looking at.
 
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garbage

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"The truth" is usually useful and significant because of its implications. You just have to get to the truth first--you can't branch out from an idea or notion unless you actually have that starting point.

Also, [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]'s example.

Of course, we all have our differing perspectives and our own version of the truth. Integrating our perspectives helps us get at what some sort of 'universal truth' might encompass.
 

INTP

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I see Truth as a 'primary substance' if you will, that which comes before everything else.

The implication or consequences of Truth [or Untruth] are secondary attributes, and relative to certain circumstances.

The truth is not relative to anything else. It stands alone. Therefore it is more important.

this
 

Lady_X

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it is the truth isn't it? how can it be separated?
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Much "untruth" comes from confusion as to what we are really looking at.


Yeah.

And what if we choose to focus in on the image and not the stick itself. I would argue with Descartes: Is not the bent reflection just as real as the straight stick? He pointed out, aptly, that discerning reality is a dubious prospect, but the converse it also true: Our reality is ultimately defined by our focus.





........And, incidentally, redefining focus is the essence of Ni.
 

Mole

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There's truth with a small 't' and Truth with a capital 'T'.

And it is Truth with a capital 'T' that the religious kill for. In Iraq for instance if you don't hold the correct Truth, you will be killed. And in Iraq if you don't hold the correct version of the Truth you will also be killed.

And the truth with a small 't' is held by scientists. And who ever heard of a scientist killing another scientist over the truth.

In fact scientific truth is universal. There is not an Islamic biology; there is not a Catholic biology; there is not even a Buddhist biology; there is only biology. So biology is universal.

So truth with a small 't', rather than Truth with a capital 'T', forms the basis for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
 

sculpting

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the truth of a logical fact is not relevent to me-only what can I do with it. The truth of an emotional, of authetic expression is of supreme value.
 
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