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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The concept then is obviously something that looms deeply in the collective unconscious. That doesn't necessarily mean that men just made up the concept of Christ based on that. Perhaps the collective unconscious may have been part of the means of revelation. The problem of sin and need of redemption was serious enough to be keyed into something that would parallel sacrifice of a child. That was the whole point. It was about Love, and yet done without sacrificing an actual child.
    I have noticed that the last shot in the locker is always, "Love".

    "Love", is meant to be the trump card to obfuscate the meaning of sacrificing a child or a Son.

    We are told, with a straight face, that sacrificial love, "agape", is the highest form of love. Yet Jesus himself begged his Father not to sacrifice Him, by saying, "Father, let this cup pass from me". But to no avail.

    And this mirrors the tens of thousands of children who begged their fathers not to sacrifice them to appease the wrath of God. But to no avail.

  2. #42
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Rather than being right or wrong, it is a question of learning to enter and leave the trance of religion at will.

    When we can wake ourselves up, and put ourselves to sleep in the arms of religion, we are mensch.

  4. #44
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Rather than being right or wrong, it is a question of learning to enter and leave the trance of religion at will.

    When we can wake ourselves up, and put ourselves to sleep in the arms of religion, we are mensch.
    Definition of MENSCH

    : a person of integrity and honor
    so integrity and honor [in their subjective entirety] cannot be achieved without the interference of religion?
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    so integrity and honor [in their subjective entirety] cannot be achieved without the interference of religion?
    Rather than being overwhelmed by religion, we can learn to enter religion and leave religion at will.

    We can learn to enter and leave belief at will. We can learn to enter and leave unbelief at will.

    We can learn to enter and leave the mystical state at will.

    So rather than religion taking charge of us, we take charge of religion.

  6. #46
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Rather than being overwhelmed by religion, we can learn to enter religion and leave religion at will.

    We can learn to enter and leave belief at will. We can learn to enter and leave unbelief at will.

    We can learn to enter and leave the mystical state at will.

    So rather than religion taking charge of us, we take charge of religion.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Religion controls us through our deep unconscious. So as we make our unconscious, conscious, particularly our deep unconscious, we start to take control of ourselves.

    Religion is like a giant compost heap stretching back 200,000 years, so we can be buried in odure, or the compost can fertilize new ways of being.

    Unfortunately most keep repeating the propaganda of the past, while the best look to evidence and reason for new horizons.

  8. #48
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I have noticed that the last shot in the locker is always, "Love".

    "Love", is meant to be the trump card to obfuscate the meaning of sacrificing a child or a Son.

    We are told, with a straight face, that sacrificial love, "agape", is the highest form of love. Yet Jesus himself begged his Father not to sacrifice Him, by saying, "Father, let this cup pass from me". But to no avail.

    And this mirrors the tens of thousands of children who begged their fathers not to sacrifice them to appease the wrath of God. But to no avail.
    Difference was, the Son of God was not just another one of those "children", He was God Himself in the flesh. So it's not like one person sacrificing another besides himself; the point is Him suffering Himself.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Difference was, the Son of God was not just another one of those "children", He was God Himself in the flesh. So it's not like one person sacrificing another besides himself; the point is Him suffering Himself.
    Christian theology teaches us that there are three persons in one god, so it was the father who sacrificed his unwilling son, while the holy spirit stood by.

    In fact the son was the victim of the father, but in our patriarchial society, we dare not blame the father, so for 2,000 years we blamed the Jews or we blamed ourselves. We did everything but blame the perpetrator: the father.

  10. #50
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    But since it's one God, it's not the same as a human father sacrificing a human son.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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