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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default There very night your life is forfeit

    I'm presently intrigued by this idea from a parable in the bible, a man has a better than expected harvest and plans to build an extra store for it all, although he's pleased with it that night God speaks to him and tells him he's a fool for that very night his soul is forfeit, or in some versions God says this very night he demands his soul. Here's a link to a version I found online:

    http://kenanderson.net/bible/html/rich_fool.html

    The ground of a certain rich man produced a good crop. He thought to himself, "What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops."

    Then he said, "This is what I'll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I'll say to myself, 'You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.'"

    But God said to him, "You fool! This very night your life will be demanded of you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?"

    This is how it will be for anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God. -- Luke 12:16-21
    There's a lot of ways of interpreting this, it could be about presence of mind, a power of now kind of thing, and not living in a time or future which hasnt happened yet, you might never live to see that tommorrow.

    That sounds a bit stupid maybe but the promise of a better tommorrow has lead a lot of people to sacrifice a lot personally for either "pie in the sky" (heavenly rewards) or "bright socialist future".

    In a simpler sense its could be putting things off to retirement or putting off exercise.

    Although I'm thinking of it at the minute in the context of sudden death or immanent death, in connection with someone I knew who died suddenly after getting up and having breakfast, and also the Titanic since there was a reading of the recorded experiences of some of the survivors and a woman described her husband saying to her that she should get in a life raft and he would get another, turned and walked away and she believed that he was going unafraid to his death.

    I'm afraid of dying, not because of judgement, I cant exactly tell why but it terrifies me, immanent or otherwise, it just does. Although what's your thoughts, does this sort of thing, sudden unexpected but some how announced and unavoidable demises scare you? No tuesdays with Morray, just the bell tolling for you.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    He had a good harvest and only thought of ways to please himself rather than others. He could die that very night and who would inherit these things? It is better to serve your fellow man and hense god before being greedy for yourself.


    "This is how it will be for anyone who stores up things for..." seems to me they are trying to scare me into being nice
    1+1=3 OMFG

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munchies View Post
    He had a good harvest and only thought of ways to please himself rather than others. He could die that very night and who would inherit these things? It is better to serve your fellow man and hense god before being greedy for yourself.


    "This is how it will be for anyone who stores up things for..." seems to me they are trying to scare me into being nice
    Perhaps, how would it make you feel? You're on a ship which is about to sink with no prospect of survival, this very night you're going to meet your maker, even if you could only consider that a metaphor, what do you feel or think?

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    Junior Member Foxxi's Avatar
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    http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-...dom-from-goods


    Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. - James 4:14

    It's true that our lives are a vapor! It's crazy to look back and see how fast our childhood and young life has gone by. Our lives could be taken away in an instant, at any moment...we have no control over when we die. Make sure that your heart is right with Christ our Creator...you never know when your life will be taken away.

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    It's funny how that's good capitalism, republicans...

  6. #6
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm presently intrigued by this idea from a parable in the bible, a man has a better than expected harvest and plans to build an extra store for it all, although he's pleased with it that night God speaks to him and tells him he's a fool for that very night his soul is forfeit, or in some versions God says this very night he demands his soul. Here's a link to a version I found online:

    There's a lot of ways of interpreting this, it could be about presence of mind, a power of now kind of thing, and not living in a time or future which hasnt happened yet, you might never live to see that tommorrow.

    That sounds a bit stupid maybe but the promise of a better tommorrow has lead a lot of people to sacrifice a lot personally for either "pie in the sky" (heavenly rewards) or "bright socialist future".
    What is the moral of such as story? Don't bother to plan for your future? Let your bumper crop rot in the field rather than store it properly? Give all your wealth to the poor? Take no pride in your accomplishments? Don't let success make you complacent? The last is the only one I can agree with, and it seems unrelated to whether one dies today or lives to be a centenarian.

    Dealing with the possibility of immanent death seems like the classic case of planning for the worst while hoping for the best. We save for retirement and emergencies. We buy insurance and make a will to provide for dependents and ensure our wealth is given to our desired heirs. Many exortations to live "as if you will die tomorrow" seem aimed at encouraging people to live in the moment, and not be so focused on providing for the future that they overlook the enjoyment of the here-and-now. There is some merit in this, but those who live too much in the moment are less likely to die today than to live many years just scraping by, eventually becoming a burden on others. We are not lilies of the field, able to photosynthesize our needs directly from the sunshine and the air. We need balance.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    I always took the parable to be suggesting 'perspective and balance" as well. There is some sense in planning; yet there are limits to what can be controlled. Either extreme seems ill-advised. I think if you read the parable in context of Jesus' other parables and the surrounding text, it becomes more clear. In this case, he's talking to people who think they can control things and have power, and the reality is that in terms of mortality everyone is equal: We're all going to die, and we can't control the method of our passing. "Ashes to ashes... we take with us only what we brought in, which is nothing."

    As far as being scared to die -- well, I'm like any other person and don't WANT to die. There's a healthy survival sense. Yet there is just no point in worrying about it. I cannot control many things in the world. I could die on the highway on my way to work, I could choke on something, I could eat the wrong food and get ill and die, I might have a weak aorta and know nothing about it and one day it might explode. There is no sense in me wasting time and energy absorbed in fears that I cannot have any chance to control. Again, balance.

    So spend 20% of your energy controlling the 80% of things you can control, don't spend the remaining 80% on the last 20%... or whatever numbers are accurate, but I think you get my drift. Life is life. Be prudent; otherwise enjoy it. The reality is that we are already all going to die -- all of us. No one lives forever. Our length of life is the only thing that differs, but physical life always ends in death, so in a sense that liberates us just to live life in a way that feels meaningful, and make the most of our time until it's over. We have to come to terms with the reality that we're mortal, we're going to die, and so we're free to live.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxxi View Post
    http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-...dom-from-goods


    Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. - James 4:14

    It's true that our lives are a vapor! It's crazy to look back and see how fast our childhood and young life has gone by. Our lives could be taken away in an instant, at any moment...we have no control over when we die. Make sure that your heart is right with Christ our Creator...you never know when your life will be taken away.

    How do you make sure your heart is right with Christ our Creator? Is Christ the creator or is that God? What are the specifics and parameters of your "heart being right"?

    I have my own specific ideas about this but I'm more interested in what you think since you mentioned it.

    I do believe our lives are vapour, in more ways than one. This actually syncs with some of the quantum physical cosmology I've read about.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    It's funny how that's good capitalism, republicans...
    What's that? The storing up for the future or having no thought for the future or what?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What is the moral of such as story? Don't bother to plan for your future? Let your bumper crop rot in the field rather than store it properly? Give all your wealth to the poor? Take no pride in your accomplishments? Don't let success make you complacent? The last is the only one I can agree with, and it seems unrelated to whether one dies today or lives to be a centenarian.

    Dealing with the possibility of immanent death seems like the classic case of planning for the worst while hoping for the best. We save for retirement and emergencies. We buy insurance and make a will to provide for dependents and ensure our wealth is given to our desired heirs. Many exortations to live "as if you will die tomorrow" seem aimed at encouraging people to live in the moment, and not be so focused on providing for the future that they overlook the enjoyment of the here-and-now. There is some merit in this, but those who live too much in the moment are less likely to die today than to live many years just scraping by, eventually becoming a burden on others. We are not lilies of the field, able to photosynthesize our needs directly from the sunshine and the air. We need balance.
    Hmm, I have thought about this a lot because I dont like some of the consequences of the "eat, drink and be merry" meme, it often is THE crucial cultural factor in the combination of recessive genes and environment which results in alcoholism, addiction, dependency and depravity. All the things I hate and which I think put distance between man and God, man and others.

    I couldnt really subscribe to the philosophy of making no provision for the future, although I know that making provision for the future wont change the future and whatever satisfaction I derive presently in making provisions is probably the best that can be expected from that process. Preparedness in many ways can be all vanity, although its not entirely pointless, as it says elsewhere in the bible as you sow so shall you reap.

    On the other hand, that is not the real way in which this story impacts me, I recall it any time someone dies who has not been ill, who has been killed by something unanticipated or anyone who has faced death, accepting that fate but without fear. Like the guy in the story about the Titanic or the guy who climbs to his execution in a tale of two cities and says something along the lines of "Its a great thing I do than I have ever done".

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